FRANKIST CONFESSIONS - 1756
Transcripts of the depositions recording the confessions of Podolian Frankists before the court (beit din) of Satanov, 2-13 Sivan 5516 [1756]. From Yakov Emdin�s �Sefer Hashimush� (Amsterdam 1758-62) f. 6b-7a, as quoted by Meir Balaban �in �L�toldot haT�nuah haFrankit�� (Tel Aviv 1934-5) pp. 120-125.
[Translator's note: These confessions revolve primarily around three Sabbatian families: Segal, Shor, and Shabti (or: Shabsi). Except for Lipman, son of Elisha Shor, all testimonies included here are�associated with the Segal family.
The Satanov tribunal�was set up at the behest of the Council of the State of Lvuv (a member of the Council of States, from which was chosen the members of the Council of Four Lands) as a direct response to the�winter 1756 discovery in the town of Lantzkron�of a Sabbatian�gathering place,�known as "the dark house," where clandestine erotic communal ceremonies were allegedly�being held.�With the assistance of the authorities, eight participants were arrested during a celebration,�including Frank, who,�claiming Ottoman citizinship,�was�soon released by the Turks.��The owner of�this house was Leibush son of Shabti,�mentioned below.
The Council of Lvov's directive to set up the�Satanov�tribunal was�in reaction to�the Bishop of Kaminetz, Bishop Dembovsky, under whose authority Lantzkron fell, who�became involved in the case and called for his own investigation.]�
1) Reb Shmuel son of our Master Rabbi Shlomo Segal, with crying and profuse tears: Gentlemen (rabotai), first I confess before you how I denied the entire Torah: I did not observe the Sabbath, I smoked tobacco on the day of Sabbath, I ate non-kosher meat (treyfut). I did not transgress with a married woman in practice, only on fantasizing about it (hirhur eishet ish). I hugged and kissed Chaya the wife of Hershil Shabtis [daughter of Elisha Shor of Ruhumin] approximately six times, [but] in actuality I did not do anything [else] with her. She told me, You are not worthy to deal with me, for I believe in Shabtai Tzvi, and my father, also my grandfather, and my uncle, they all believe, [but] you still did not learn much Torah, you do not have this�privilage (zchiyah). Once, I propositioned her to sin, [and] she responded, Did you learn today Song of Songs (Shir HaShirim) like me? How are you permitted to do such a holy [act]? Once, her husband Hirsh heard from me that his wife Chaya fornicated (zanta) with his brother Leibush when they traveled to the fair in Tarnopol. [Upon hearing this] he became furious with her that she did it without his knowledge. He said, I would have not chastised her [and would have let her do it], but you know that this mitzvah is specifically when there is consent [of the husband].
����������� Hirsh also told me and his brother-in-law Yosef, how she [Chaya] fornicated with his [Hirsh�s?] brother-in-law Palnitshin from Zbarza, but this was at first against her will, then her husband wanted to beat her, until [finally] she consented.
����������� Hirsh Shabtis himself fornicated with my wife several times in my presence. I am guilty (chayav) for this, [for] she didn�t want to. Once, I met him while traveling to the scribe, and he told me how while in Zabriza he fornicated with his wife�s sister Menucha, and I was very pleased. Leibush fornicated with my wife two or three times, also with my knowledge, for this is the signal: whoever eats without washing their hands etc. Itzak Meir Bashush Zlatchever who resides in Bunatz[?] also fornicated with the wife of Leib son of Yishaya from Zbariza, two or three times. He brought me writings, the book �Va�avo Hayom el haAyin� [attributed to Eibeshitz], and other books. Also Busker Dov fornicated several weeks ago in the village. The aforementioned Leibush fornicated with an innkeeper, daughter of Reb Naftali Segal, and he habitated (dar) with her like [a man does with] a woman. This is how the aforementioned Hirsh told it me. He also told me, [that when he was] in Rohtin [together] with his brother-in-law Leibush, that they all fornicated together with the daughter-in-law of Elisha the Elder, wife of his son Shlomo. Even the Elder Elisha fornicated with her after the arrival of the�Frank [his return to Podolia and to Ruhutin where Elisha lived].
����������� All the above, Reb Shmuel admitted to us with confessional words and much crying. The second day of Sivan 5516 [1756]. Signed (neum) Yakov Kopil, and signed Chaim Volf, and signed Moshe son of our Master Rabbi Tuvia. All the above [transpired] before the aforementioned court. Signed Shmuel son of our Master Shlomo Segal.
����������� 2) The woman Chaya, daughter of the aforementioned Reb Shlomo, admitted to us after confessional words and much crying, that she fornicated with the aforementioned Leibush and with Hirsh, grandson of Elisha the Elder, and with our Master Rabbi Avraham [�]. They told me that it is a mitzvah.
����������� 3) Reb Shmuel also admitted: Hirsh Shabtis brought the aforementioned Hirshl to his house, and he [Hirshl?] fornicated with his sister Chanah, and in the presence of Shmuel son of Shlomo [Segal].
����������� 4) The woman Reizil daughter of� Reb Hirsh, wife of the aforementioned Shmuel [Segal], confessed before us� how she fornicated with the aforementioned Leibush several times, and with Hirshl Shabtis several times, and with the son of Yishayah from the community of Zbariza. All the above was with her husband�s consent, who told her that this is a mitzvah.
����������� 14) Yuzfa son of Reb Yitzchok the Teacher related: My daughter-in-law was in the house of Reb Leibush, and she [later] told that he propositioned her to sin. Verily, she was clean from this [and did not succumb to him]. Also, she saw that they do not follow Jewish customs. She asked them about it, why do you not follow Jewish custom, [for] in the days of menstruation they pass objects and children to each other. She replied: This is not prohibited, this was instituted for the simple people.�
����������� 20) Reb Yakov son of Moshe Breshtizker told: I would debate with Reb Yosef Leibsh�s on the kabalistic teachings of Shabtai Tzvi and Brachyah [Baruchiya] may their names be wiped out (yemach shemom). [Once,] Reb Yosef said to me: You can perform (la�asot) kabala, for you broke [away] from Torah of Briah, and this [Torah of Briah] is not the true Written Torah and Oral Torah. For a long time I followed them in their teachings. Once, Reb Yosef said to me: Kiss my wife, then I will truly know that you are an upright believer. I did not want to, for I said: I cannot do this because [it is against] my nature. Reb Shmuel son of Shlomo [Segal] told me several times, how they transgress the entire Torah. And he [Shmuel] recounted how he wanted to kiss Reb Hirsh Reb Shabtis� wife and she would not let him kiss her. So he went to Reb Hirsh her husband, and he gave him permission to fornicate with her. Nonetheless she would not consent. So he went to her husband [and told him that his wife would not consent]. He [Hirsh her husband] thought that she is not a believer. [So to prove that she still is,] she took a knife and took some forbidden fat (chelev) and ate it.
����������� 23) The wife of Reb Baruch, son-in-law of Reb Shlomo testified: His daughter-in-law [�] had food [that was] with the woman Devora who lives with Reb Shabti. [So she went there to get the food.] Then [thereafter] my daughter-in-law came to me and she said to me: I looked through a hole in the door, [and I saw] that the teacher Reb Itzik and [va�z = va�adoni zkeni? v�ish/v�isha zar/zara?] were sitting together and were learning together, and the teacher was hitting the aforementioned Chaya in the middle of her lap.
����������� 24) Reb Yosef son-in-law of Reb Shlomo Segal confessed publicly for the sin of [following] Shabtai Tzvi may his name be wiped out (yemach shemo), that they permitted all the sexual relations (arayot) [prohibited] in the torah, and the nullification of the mitzvoth. They denied its essence (kafru b�ikar). And he confessed some of his sins, and he was fit to testify, and we asked him with [the threat of] excommunication that he should tell what he knows about his friends, and he told exactly like this (b�zeh haloshon)� that the woman the daughter of the servant of Reb Naftali was with Reb Leibush in his house, and the aforementioned Reb Leibush led me to this woman to fornicate with her. And he told me that he fornicated with her several times, therefore you [RebYosef] also do like this. And I went to him [to do] like he said, and I came to her, but [then] fear gripped me and I became very overwhelmed (va�evahel meod), and I withdrew from her, I did not do [the] deed, and [so] I was saved. This was in the basement of Reb Leibush. He also admitted to me that he fornicated with the wife of Reb Leib Tzoref.
����������� 25) Reb Hirsh Reb Shabtis once told me, that his wife fornicated with a gentile (nachri) without his knowledge, and he was angry over this, because [fornicating] in this manner [i.e. with a gentile] is not considered a sin for them. And her husband also believes in Shabtai Tzvi. Reb Hirsh also said that when [he would be] on the road he did like their [Sabbatians�] deeds, for it is a mitzvah for them. Reb Hirsh would not fast on fast days, only�[Yom Kipur?] I do not know. We drank chametz this Passover. All this [are] the words of Reb Yosef the son of Natan Segal.
����������� 26) Reb Yosef admitted in the presence of me and in the presence of Yosef son of Eliezer, that he [Yosef] fornicated with the wife of Reb Shmuel [Reizil]. He also admitted that he gave his wife permission to fornicate with Leibush in his presence. This from Menachem Mendil. ��
����������� 27) In the presence of us the undersigned, Reb Yosef said in confessional words� We asked him: you related to the Rabbi and the community how the wife of Reb Hirsh son of Reb Shabtis fornicated with a gentile man, who is this [man]? He replied: It is Moshe Platshna [the swordmaker]. The aforementioned Reb Hirsh also told [me] how he fornicated with his wife[�s sister?] Menucha from Zabriza. Reb Leibush also told [me] then that he had sex with his sister (sheba al achoto). This is how Reb Leibush himself told it: [that it happened] when he traveled to the Tarnopol fair. At first she resisted, but he seduced her. He [Yosef] also told [us] that Leibush boasted about this to him: that when he was in the community of Rohtin with his brother-in-law Reb Hirsh, they all fornicated with the wife of Reb Shlomo son of Elisha. Even this Reb Hirshl, son�in-law of Reb Avraham Chared, also fulfilled [this] mitzvah with the wife of his aforementioned uncle [Shlomo]. We asked him: Did Elisha himself also do this? And he replied: until then Elisha himself did not do this, but after the arrival of the Frank, he too fulfilled this mitzvah with his aforementioned daughter-in-law. We asked his [Elisha�s] son Lipman, how [did] he [behave]? He replied: He too did not do this until after the arrival of the Frank. And until then he hated his father. Verily, he now goes in the path of impurity (tumah), and he also keeps their mitzvoth, and [now] his father loves him, and he became a pleasure (hana�ah) to his father Elisha. Signed (neum) Moshe son of Tzvi z�l, and signed Yosef son of our Master Eliezer z�l.�
- trans. zoro-islamo-yid�����
Judaism.com
June 22nd, 2007 at 11:43 am
Zoro,
Yasher koach! this is a great contribution to Sabbatian/Frankist studies. I’ve only skimmed it just now, but let me read it carefully a time or two and then, if I have any, share my comments.
Again, well done!
Yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 11:45 am
zoro,
yasher koach! this is a great contribution to sabbatian/frankist studies. i’ve only skimmed it so far. let me read it more carefully and then, if i have any, share my comments.
again, job well done!
yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 11:47 am
sorry for the duplicate comments, above. the cow apparently has a mad disease.
June 22nd, 2007 at 12:35 pm
You’re welcome.
It should be noted that it is the opinion of Professor Sid (Shneur Zalman) Leiman of CUNY & Yeshivah University (based on a conversation we had in Oxford when he was there on sabbatical), that much of this material could have been fabricated by Emdin & justified to pursecute Sabbatians. This is especially possible since we do not have any other source to such a detailed testimony other than Emdin. This also fits the personality of the zealot misanthropic Emdin, who was obssessed with personal vendetta to persecute even the slightest suspicion of Sabbatianism. (This ran in the family: his father, the Chacham Tzvi[!], persecuted Nechemiah Chiyun & otehrs.)
According to Leiman, this & the attacks on Eibeshitz were also due to Emdin’s jealosy for Eibeshitz’ titular position of Rabbi of AH”U (Altuna, Hamburg, Voldniek) - a position Emdin deemed more befitting for himself.
Yet, with all respect to Prof. Leiman, we need to consider that Emdin printed this material a mere decade after the events, & it does not seem plausible that he would invent material that could easily be verified then with the Council of States for their authenticity. As the Talmud says, “On matters that will be revealed no one lies” (”Milta d’avidi ligluya lo mishakra inshi”). Also, people were certainly still alive who knew these confessors. In fact, it seems that those who testified & showed true contrition were allowed to return to the traditonal Jewish community, so their stories would have been well known, or they would have at least been known as former Sabbatians - a matter easily verifiable. It is true that there is much of Emdin that is not true, especially since he relied on unreliable sources, such as Avraham of Sarigrud. But the material here seems too “imperfect” to be forgeries.
June 22nd, 2007 at 12:45 pm
d’uh? are my comments on this post purposely being removed? or is the cow simply mad with disease for the moment?
June 22nd, 2007 at 1:53 pm
lol. it’s quite obviously mad cow disease. comments keep appearing and disappearing on this thread for what I’m sure is no particular reason. So with that in mind, I’ll take the risk of posting the following:
Zoro,
This is wonderful material you’ve made available to us. but, as I’m sure you’d agree, even if it WASN’T fabricated, and vivid as it is, I don’t think it has many surprises as far as the way in which Sabbatians and Frankists practiced “redemption through sin” (which, as I’ll point out later, is ENTIRELY different than the way WE “yalhakian” NEO-sabbatians do.)
what’s being described here was and, we’ve been led to believe by recent reliable sabbatian testimonies, still is business as usual for the sabbatians and frankists — but it only reflects THEIR way of “raising up the shekinah” and “coming to the maiden as the gateway to god” and achieving “redmption through sin.” A way, incidentally, with which WE (meaning I and NEO-sabbatianism) do NOT agree, teach, or practice.
That is, although we (meaning I and NEO-sabbatianism) accept and practice the teaching of “redemption through sin,” we do NOT accept and practice it in the way iSabbatai, Frank and their followers did. I’ve written and speechified a great deal on this difference between THEIR “redemption through sin” and OURS over the years. For example there are the following recorded talks on my website:
“Reb Yakov Leib on Redemption Through Sin”
“Sex, Sin & Evil In Neo-Sabbatian Kabbalah”
“Sin & Redemption in NEO-Sabbatian Kabbalah”
“The_Neo-Sabbatian_As_Sinner_But_Not_Criminal”
And let me clarify that difference between OUR understanding and “practice” of “redemption through sin” (which is virtual, not carnal) and that of Sabbatai and Frank. In summary, the understanding I have come to of this profound mystery is that the purpose of any act of redemption -through-sin [including but not limited to forbidden sex] is not for the purpose of the act itself, but for the purpose of releasing the holiness” WITHIN the evil.
As a result, what I have taught and practiced over the past 25 years is that such fulfilling of a mitzvah by violating it is even more powerfully accomplished VIRTUALLY rather than LITERALLY in what the Zohar calls The Heart-Mind of Imagination where, it tells us, God is known rather than through the physical action of the body. This also addresses the Zoharic injunction that nothing shall be completely revealed so long as one is under the spell of the body by totally removing bodily action from the violation of the mitzvah and, instead, doing it THEURGICALLY in the imagination rather than LITERALLY in actual fact.
Yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 1:58 pm
p.s. i hope the next time i look all these comments are still here.
June 22nd, 2007 at 2:25 pm
ahh. b’h, they still are.
btw, let me mention that one of the younger hereditary, Turkish maaminim, Ilgaz Zorlu by name, several years ago published a “tell all” book about these continuing sexual practices among the turkish maaminim. It was published in turkish and never translated. However, Prof. Elqayam published translated portions of it in “Kabbalah: Journal for the Study of Jewish Mystical Texts” of which he is an editor at http://www.chez.com/jec2/cpkabbvol2-3.htm
June 22nd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
oh, one last thing. In addition to writing his infamous, tell-all book, Ilgaz Zorlu (who really is one of the leaders of the “young” sabbatians) has established a publishing firm in Istanbul devoted entirely to publishing ancient and modern Sabbatian writings. He has been asking me to write a book for them for several years, but I’m really too lazy. But if you go to his website at http://www.zwipublishing.8m.net/whowe.html you’ll see he quotes me quite a bit anyway.
now i promise to shut up.
yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
either this stuff is lies or its friggin disgusting.
June 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
thanks for the links. & thanks once again for sharing your unique approach of virtual sabbatianism.
the emphasis on virtual rather than literal can also be a way to understand the ascetic sabbatians who still continued praticing the traditional law to its fullest & ironically used sabbatian teachings to become more pietistic.
it also explains how sabbatianism-frankism ultimately became inspirational sources for morally conscious movements (enlightenment, freemasons, social political reform in turkey, etc.) while at the same time still adhering & being predicated upon a movement with “immoral” teachings & practices. history has shown that by the time eve daughter of frank passed on, the western sabbatians at least did not practice any of the immoral & sexual conducts of the generation before. at the same time they followed these teachings that legitimized these practices. taking it to the virtual imaginative plane resolves this & facilitates the outlet for such behavior. (yet practically: does one “imagine” sleeping with one’s daughter-in-law or sister? isn’t even that a bit creepy, to say the least?)
taking the virtual approach, shmuel son of shlomo segal’s confession above that he transgressed by thinking of sleeping with a married woman, though he did not in actuality, shows that at least in 1756 they valued this as some form of sinning, though not as “holy” as actually performing it.
shabat shalom.
June 22nd, 2007 at 7:32 pm
i wish i had something to add but this is great stuff. i loved the eating of the chelev.
June 22nd, 2007 at 8:20 pm
“taking the virtual approach, shmuel son of shlomo segals confession above that he transgressed by thinking of sleeping with a married woman, though he did not in actuality, shows that at least in 1756 they valued this as some form of sinning, though not as holy as actually performing it.” — Zoro
yasher koach! that is a most subtle and perceptive observation and explains so much. i love it.
i only wish you were fluent in turkish, so you could translate parts of Ilgaz Zorlu’s book as beautifully as you’ve done this. [you don’t happen to understand turkish, do you? hint. hint.]
yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 8:52 pm
shitalphin,
the “eating of the cheleb” was one of the things I practiced years ago (along with the antinomian sex I described elsewhere) that lead me ultimately to the realization that the same tikkun — “making the forbidden things permissible” regardless of whether the forbidden things are sexual or non-sexual — can be accomplished (and perhaps with even more theurgic effect) VIRTUALLY rather than LITERALLY.
yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 9:44 pm
also, reb yalhak, in the arch of your “brief” life, you developed in a way what took sabbatians-frankists several generations to evolve.
i do not know turkish per se, but if there’s a version of it in persian, then…
in general, do you know of any persian sabbatian material?
June 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 pm
zoro,
todah rabah. i’m touched you should say so.
as for the question of zorlu’s book being in persian and whether there are other sabbatian texts in persian, let me ask around and get back to you. (i truly hope there are and that you would translate them,at least in part.)
Avi Elqayam should be back from Greece soon and Harris, if he’s still talking to me, should be back from his usual summer wanderings by the start of next semester. I’ll contact them, and maybe even Ilgaz, then.
shabbat shalom,
yalhak
June 22nd, 2007 at 11:26 pm
TO: Prof. Avraham Elqayam, Ph.D.
Dept. of Jewish Studies
Bar Ilan University, Israel
Dear Avi,
First, was Zorlu’s book ever translated into and published in English? If not (and I know there is only the remotest possibility for this) does there happen to be a version in Persian?
The reason I’m asking is because one of the brilliant young men on Seven Fat Cow — that “alternative” Jewish blog I told you about — is not only a genuine Torah scholar, but also fluent in Persian,
He is one of the graduated Yeshiva bochers on 7fc who are translating and publishing there remarkable, heretofore unavailable Sabbatian, Frankist and even Breslover texts, and he has inquired of me if there are any Sabbatian texts in Persian with which he might do the same.
I hope this finds you well and rested from your trip to Greece.
Zvi Go’el,
Yankif
June 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 am
there’s a wonderful hungarian film “memoirs of a river” (1990) by judit elek about jews tortured into confessions.
Tutajosok (1990)
A film Solymosi Eszter titkok ovezte vizbefulasa es a tiszaeszlari per nyomdokaba ered. Egy zsido hegyi pasztor, Scharf Jozsef a kozak pogrom elol menekul a Monarchia teruletere. Ruszin es zsido favagok veszik gondozasba. Hersko David fogadja be a csaladjaba, egyutt ulik a husvetot. Mikor a fausztatok szokasos evi utjukra keszulodnek a Tiszan, egy holttest bukkan fol a vizen. A nyomozas soran Scharf fiat, Moricot betanitjak a zsidok elleni hamis tanuvallomasra. Written by Steve Varadi {svaradi@sprynet.com}
June 23rd, 2007 at 8:45 pm
thanks yalhak for writing to prof. elqayam. his “kabbalah” journal is the creme-de-la-creme of academia in this field. just one disclaimer: i am far from fluent in persian. i can read it and understand it somewhat, but translating entire texts will take a while & need checking.
besides the translating aspect, i was in general curious if anyone knows of any persian form of sabbatianism-donmeh? we know that there was sufi influence, & that they apparently used persian sufi poetry etc. but are there any original writings in persian, or a sabbatian community in persia-iran?
June 23rd, 2007 at 9:09 pm
in confessions 1 & 27: “after the arrival of the frank” — the word for arrival, “biat,” is the same word for sex, “biah.” so it can also be read as: “after the frank had sex with her.” yet, although possibly true, “arrival” seems to be the more explicit meaning of the word “biat” here.
confession 25: “gentile” (”nachri”) can also be translated as foreigner or stranger, i.e. a jewish man from another country or someone unknown to them or a non-believer. this is even more plausible since in confession 27 yosef identifies him as “moshe platshna,” which sounds more like a jewish name. still, i kept it here as “gentile,” as it is typically translated.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:12 am
zoro-islamo-yid,todah rabbah for translating the text,and for all you do here.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
you’re welcome, yesod.
i have my own “confession” to make: until quite recently, i thought that you & possibly eisav are “manifestations” of your abba yalhak, i.e. that posts signed “yesod ben yakov leib” are in fact from yalhak himself in the revealed state of the sefirah yesod. hence yalhak accusing me a couple of weeks back for “misreading” & attributing to him words written by you. my confusion arose since i never heard “yesod” used as a proper noun before. (even “eisav” i suspected as such since it too is not a typical name.) but now i know that you & eisav & the others are in fact “apostles” ala the 12 brothers & 12 sisters.
speaking of which, are there any donmeh-west sisters out there that write here? if not, why not?
as for the persian connection, i think we mentioned a while back that elqayam or someone else wrote about the persian mythical god zahak, which is depicted in the persian epic shahnameh by ferdowsi (ca. 1000 CE), being an influence on frank’s “dicta of the lord.” does anyone remember where this is?
June 24th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
zoro
if you want to meet yesod, aisav, shaul and my other maaminim “face to face” come to any of the 22 live classes I give throughout the week, monday through sunday on paltalk. (in fact i’m writing this between classes right now.)
in the meantime, shame on you for having such a suspicious mind.
yalhak
June 24th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
oh, and although there are donmeh west “sisters” out here, who in fact read this blog, there are none who comment on it. as for why, i don’t know. that’s their business, not mine.
yalhak
June 24th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
June 24th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
and, to be as honest with you as you just were with yesod, i’m not sure whether to be insulted or amused by the implication that i’m falsifying identities of my students. but for the sake of sholom ha’beit, i’ll be amused. in proof of which i once again sign off with a
yalhak
June 24th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
zoro,
lol. i just mentioned your concern the donmeh west maaminim who have been commenting on cow aren’t “real people” but really me. I’m not so sure THEY were as amused by that as I am. You’ll be hearing from a few of them (even possibly some women) over the next few days. please rest assured that it’s THEM and NOT me who’s writing.
yalhak
June 24th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Yes, Zoro there are donmeh-west sisters. I myself come on occasion to read and catch-up but just don’t wish to comment, but I do exist.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
zoro-islamo,thanks for the compliment,to say you thought I to be him,is a reflection,of what we are taught.there are differences tho,the rebbe lives in the south,i the north,in humbolt country(certainly you have heard of it)..Also i smoke a lot,and the only time the rebbe smokes is when he is a teachin/preachin.have a beutifull day,,,,,,,love yesod,,ps,,if you go to www.paltalk.com and download the chat server,for free,then every day mon thru fri,@8am est,and rebroadcast again @ 8pm est. you can experience the asskickin teaching and or listen via our website(all free).Have you listened yet?
June 24th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Zoro,
I have been called all sorts of things before, but never have I been refered to as a “manifestation”. Apart from a very existential question whether “I” exsist, I must assure you, I certainly do exist. Furthermore, if I am the figment of someone’s imagination, then they must have a truly bizzare sense of humor.
I live right outside of Dallas, Texas. I even worked part-time at the counter at the local JCC in Dallas, with the ‘prestigious’ job as a locker-room attendant for 5 years. Maybe you can network with some people in Dallas and see if there ever was a crazy lookin’ hippie there in the mid 90’s, lol.
All jabs aside, you should really come by our morning and weekend shuirim on Paltalk and see for yourself. Abba serves up some awesome Torah and the company is good! We’ll save a spot just for you.
Now, I must dissolve into a puff of smoke as us “manifestations” are so prone to do.
Be well,
Aisav
June 24th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Just one of the Donmeh-West sisters checking in to let you know that I do come and visit your blog and read it with interest. Hi, zoro-islamo! Good to meet you brother:) As to the present topic I admit to being intrigued with a Sufi/Persian/Iran connection if anyone can find any info on that. The Sufis are a people that have impressed me greatly with the quality of pure spirituality in their mysticism…Just one of many paths I have crossed and mingled with in my spiritual search throughout my life. The Neo-Sabbatean movement seems to attract a surprising variety of such people and even has room for someone like me, a Kemetic pagan. So yes, there ARE women Ma’aminim in Donmeh West and I hope you’ll drop in to some of our classes some time and say hi to us personally, you’d be most welcome.:)
June 24th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
thanks y’all for responding so quickly!
i too am flattered by the open hospitality being shown to me & the other moocows (as joyce calls them in the beginning of “portrait of as artist”).
btw, a similar situation exists here, that although there are a few female posters, none of the “editors” are in the partzuf of mother shechinah.
i’d loooove to join a shiur when possible. the thing is that i’m in the heights of pre-production (principal photography, i.e. the shoot, begins at the end of this week), so if i don’t join in right away or spend copious amounts of time online, i hope you’ll understand.
my actors are showing up soon for rehearsals, so until next time, au revoir mon freres et souers.
hiney mah tov u’mah na’im shevet b’marshetet [=internet] achim v’achot gam yachad!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
ZORRO:
hey, wait. r u in the theatre? (you say your actors are about to show up for rehersal, etc.). if so, is there no end to your talents young man?
seriously, i’m impressed.
yalhak
p.s. and you ain’t seen nothing yet. lol. i’ve asked the entire membership of donmeh west to post comments here on cow assuring you and everyone else that they really do exist outside of my own fevered imagination. they may or they may not; like everything else i do with them, it wasn’t a demand, just a request. but if they DO i sure hope the “cutter” (and we all know who THAT is) allows at least some of them, and just posts a tally of the others.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Im a new student of Reb Yakov Leib Hakohain and of Donmeh West,i can assured you i am a real person!Speaking to the sexual acts in the as formention blog above, Reb has told all of us these things , and i am not shocked in the least to read what has been posted.He has been more than honest of how these sexual practices by Frank and others,have taken place,and has mention that these practices dont work and, how releasing the holy sparks virtually not physically is what he teaches now! Shalom!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Shalom to all,
i am not a figment of Abba’s imagination nor a gentile nor a male but am a chaver.i have read some of your articles and find them fascinating. however, i must tell you that Abba is , and i am speaking from the heart, a true Tzaddik.
usually, when one accuses another of such a grandiose scheme of imagination, as per Abba, she/he is the one with the figment.
enfatik nu, Hannah
June 24th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
all this talk of lusts of the body is making me hungry…just wondering as I sit here and eat my steak and cheese sandwich…how many of the readers of cow have never eaten at a macdonalds? just mindless “food” for thought
everting irie
June 24th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
dear zoro- reb yakov leib hakohain has been my spiritual guide for about seven years,and as far as i can tell, i really do exist…
June 24th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
I am a lurking Donmeh West sister, and the last time I checked (looking down) I don’t look enough like YalHak (nor am I knowledgable enough) to claim to be a manifestation of him.
I do admire what you folks at Seven Fat Cows are doing!
Shalom,
Sophia Rose
June 24th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
dear cow, thank you
another grateful member of donmeh west checking in
novadog
June 24th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
[Just as an aside, for a piece I wrote a while back (or at least I THINK I wrote it) on the ultimate Eheyeh, see http://www.donmeh-west.com/rodofaaron.shtml]
yalhak (the last time I checked)
June 24th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
See! Even THAT doesn’t even really exist. (What an existential crisis you’ve caused here, Zoro, babe!)
Nah. Just a broken link. Whew. Here’s the one that works:
http://www.donmeh-west.com/rodofaaron.shtml
June 24th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
there is no greater deception than honesty.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
Damn! this is fun. I just remembered a little verse from my childhood. (No, I did NOT write it):
“As I was walking up the stair
I met a man who wasnt there.
He wasnt there again today.
I wish, I wish hed stay away.”
Yalhak
June 24th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Alph,
I LOVE it. Please, PLEASE tell me YOU composed it.
Yalhak
June 24th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
shitalphin,
i mean, of course, i LOVE “there is no greater deception than honesty” (it’s the zen in me; did it come from the zen in you?)
ok. now i promise to be like the little man and go away. at least for now.
yalhak
June 25th, 2007 at 12:12 am
i think it came from my sphincter not my zen.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:29 am
s’alphin,
you’re too modest. either that, or too honest.
yalhak
June 25th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Greetings,
Another Donmeh-West member here.
Peace to all.
Mizzel
June 25th, 2007 at 2:48 am
Wow, this is what i get for going away for the weekend. Looks like i missed some heavy partying here.
Shaul
June 25th, 2007 at 2:57 am
Those who read, follow, support, admire, respect or who are otherwise aware of the existence of Reb Yalhak are for real, including myself, and are not figments of anyone’s imagination.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:44 am
ok, so the tote is adding up: as of those who posted here, there are at least 6 brothers (yesod, aisav, monkeywrench, hugo, novadog, shaul, & possibly skip), & 4 sisters (rachel, hagar, daughterofariel, sophia rose). that is a minyan in any book! & when the 10 expand to 24 (12 & 12) — ah then the quorum becomes an entire nation!
of course, all the above could STILL have been written by 1 person — heh heh — or not so heh heh — for prove me wrong — & one cannot, for the technology enables to create multitudes of pseudenoms without any proof that it is not coming from one — & isn’t that the very point? that by relying exclusively on the virtual, there is no feasible method to prove that it correlates with the literal. so for all intents & purposes, we “trust,” or at least rely, that the way things are presented on blogs etc. are true. but we all are aware that most names online are tags & do not correspond with the name that the person uses “literally.” we also know how easy it is to fabricate info (e.g. a news event) onine. so what have we gained from all this, if not to entangle our webbed neural psyches with the collective web that encompasses all knowledge & infomation in the realm of spaceless (or almost spaceless) space. time too begins to play quantum tricks. & where do we end up at the end???
June 25th, 2007 at 5:51 am
G’ Day Cows
Just here to Say I do exist and have been listening to the teaching’s our Rebbe gives every weekday morning and also weekend classes for going on a year now .I have visted here occasionaly lurking quitely in the background.
Peace and blessings From Down Under
ZaQ
June 25th, 2007 at 11:59 am
hey Zoro,
it’s Yesod’s wife, Donmeh Wester; my_beloveds_hephzibah, informing you that you are to benefit from your newfound awareness of his physical existence (although he may be my minds’ manifestation)by becoming the recipient of a bakers dozen of cookies, baked at my hand, as a “reward” for your translation works! An ongoing and gracious thank-you to you for this endeavor.
“Hi Cows”
Love Kasey, aka Hephzibah
June 25th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
beshami baruhya ilen “amirah”, es “amirah” ethno dolos mondos..Turkish maaminim and your devoted follower s.o. Been here and there (donmeh-west) for the past 2 years.
Greetings to all..
June 25th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
I am a student of Rebbe Yaakov Leib Hakohain and
I have known the Rebbe for the last 7 years and I feel I am a person who currently lives in Norway,scandinavia. If I exist or not exist or both exist and not exist or neither exist nor notexist is a matter of philosphical debate and I am not a philosopher and let It all be. The important thing is to knw that God exists.
Dont forget to remember God
Shimon
June 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Hello guys, Another sister, student of Yalhak on sabatical, and not reading much these days, still checking in, just for good measure… Hope everybody’s having fun out there!
Love,
Keturah
June 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Lol i think i exsist i dont kow wether that means that i do but i am here to say that i thoink i exist lol
June 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
oops think lol
June 25th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
zoro,
since we’re keeping a running tab here, let me add a few relevant statistics.
– Almost 60 thousand people come to the Donmeh West website to read and listen to our Neo-Sabbatian teachings.
– Of these 60 thousand visitors, approx. 15 thousand become “regulars” in the sense that they continue coming to the website more than just once.
– Of these 15 thousand repeat visitors to our website, approximately 1,000 have become subscribing members of Donmeh West — that is, and students of mine who have varying degrees of committment to me and our teachings.
– Of these 1,000 “uncommitted” but subscribing students, approximately 100 have become “Friends” of Donmeh West, which is the first step toward becoming one of my full Ma’aminim.
– Of these 100 “Friends” of Donmeh West, an intentionally very small number have become Ma’aminim after at least two years of close, personal (but virtual) study and (virtual) interaction with me.
– Of this select group of Ma’aminim, a few have ventured forth into this pasture to graze among the other cows.
Any lurking Donmeh West chaverim or maaminim who have anything to add to this, please feel free to do so, since your existence — indeed, the very NATURE of existence itself — seems to be in question here.
Yalhak
June 25th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
“of course, all the above could STILL have been written by 1 person heh heh or not so heh heh for prove me wrong & one cannot, for the technology enables to create multitudes of pseudenoms without any proof that it is not coming from one ”
zoro……..now that you have seen all the responses and have asked all the “extistensial” questions. I’m going to focus on “YOU”. With this quote in mind, “For one kind of person no proof is necessary, for another kind of person, no amount of proof is ever enough.” My question to you zoro is what/how do you “feel” about all of this?
Shaul
Shaul
June 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
shaul,
oh, i think zoro has made it perfectly clear how HE feels about all of this. the larger question, i think, is how WE feel about all of this.
abba
June 25th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
zoro, babe:
i think you need to recompute your statistics. the “cutter” just added a whole bunch more figments of my imagination to the list up to but not included in your tally.
love and kisses,
yalhak
June 25th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
June 25th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
looks like the agent smiths are multiplying…
& i luv the fact that after shaul posed his question to me, he signs TWICE.
Be it as it may, thank you so very much dear ma’aminim for “revealing” your virtual presence here in the pixelized pastures. what a beautiful community, mamesh gevald!
& thanks for assuming that i (zoro, islamo, yid) are 1. as principle of faith #5 of the frankist’s 9 principles of faith stipulates:
“V: We believe in three partzufim (forms, faces) that are equal one to the other without any separation”
this follows #4:
“IV: We believe that there is one god, without beginning and without end, and [that] he created heaven and earth and all that is in them, the revealed and the unrevealed.”
& following #5:
“VI: We believe that god came into the physical in a body like other humans, to do the needs of man, to eat and sleep and other human needs, [the] only [difference is that he does it] without sin.”
so thank you for assuming that i am one.
this is also the meaning of “seven fat COW” — singular, not “COWS” — for although we are 7 (”All sevens are beloved” as the midrash says), we are still ONE COW.
looking forward to interacting with you all in the near future. gotta rush to meet my cinematographer now.
June 25th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
zoro,
that’s all very well and good, but i have better proof than that that you exist as one.
remember, last month two of your fellow cows from new york came to visit me up here in the mountains while they were staying in los angeles. (shalom kinderlach)?
well, don’t think there wasn’t plenty of loshen hora about YOU, my friend. (all of it better than good, of course). it’s only on the basis of their testimony that i care to believe you ARE — or that i know myself TO BE. (just ask them)
yours till the cows come home,
yalhakmir ibn ayin-chaynik
June 25th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
well zoro,
you seem to have stirred up a bit of attention for yourself.are you qvelling yet? you must realize how revealing your statements are about you.celluloid indeed.
on another note, might you tell me what your interest is in ferdowsi’s shahnameh? as this particular smith, as you so neocinematically put it, is familiar with parts of the text.
June 25th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Yakov Frank and Shabsi Tzvi Yemach Shemom was a sic pervert who ruined many lives through his teaching of Rosho toirohs it is a Bushe that drop-outs of the pure good Charedi world pick up this dreck as if this Meshugener did anything but terrible things
Shabsi Tzvi and Yakov Frank were Emesser Reshoim a Masis Umadiach, and we know al ready What the Chazon Ish and all the great Gedolim said abut such vermin.
it is ossur to post his teachings and the Frum community must be MOICHE is the strong terms with Rabbonim and Gedolim to call for a complete Cherem of anybody involved with this websiteeverybody agrees that he cause great terrible Tzurus to the yiden. Rabonnim must be notified and Gedolim must be strong against this with Toikef Hamasim
June 25th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
[…] Comments Truth on FRANKIST CONFESSIONS - 1756daughterofariel on FRANKIST CONFESSIONS - 1756Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain on FRANKIST CONFESSIONS - […]
June 25th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Wow good “machaa” there truth!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Truth,
Well just to make sure you get it right when you notify the rabbinic authorities to place me under cherem, my full Hebrew name is Yakov Leib ben Moshe HaCohen. My English name is Lawrence Jerold Corey, my website is at www.donmeh-west.com and my email address is brink62517@mypacks.net.
(Be forewarned, however, that with the permission of the editors of this blog any correspondence sent to me at that address by you or them will be immediately posted here on this blog, complete with your real names and email addresses.)
In the meantime, you might also want to inform yourself and them that I made formal conversions to Christianity, Islam and Hinduism which, if I’m not mistaken, automatically placed me under cherem. Quoting myself from my website:
“The other Jews call me a heretic. Well, I am. And worse, an iconoclast too: my goal is nothing less than the breaking of all religious containers (and not just Judaism) for the sake of liberating God. In the words of my 18th century namesake and predecessor, Yakov Leib Frank, ‘All the faiths and conducts and the books that have been written till today — everyone who reads in them is like someone who has turned his head backwards and is looking at things already dead. All of it comes from the Gate of Death. But the wise man’s eyes are ever in his head so he must look towards He-Who-Walks-In-Front.’ Like Frank and the other radical antinomian Kabbalists who came before him, I worship God and not religion; I seek for His salvation and not my own…..or, even less-so, yours.” — Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain
Yalhak
P.S. Whether the editors of the Cow blog are intimidated by your silly threats or not (and I SERIOUSLY doubt that they are) is entirely up to them. I trust them for their courage and refusal to be intimidated by fucking assholes like you.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:21 am
Hello I am a woman, baptised as Roman Catholic but that’s just for legal purposes. What I am is a student of spirituality and I am a member of Donmae West because it is where I find the higher truths I’ve been searching for. If you have any doubts about the truth found here, search yourself why it frightens you so much that you would rather think its a lie. When you find it, then you have no choice but to be a better person and you’ll do your part in making this world a better place. Start by hanging out with the right people.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
hi. in brief:
yalhak — yes u validated my existence through “literal” testimonies of 2 cows who visited you, not by any posts here or other virtual channels — for we live literal (literal food, literal air, etc.) & do not rely on virtual alone.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
hi. in brief:
yalhak — yes u validated my existence through “literal” testimonies of 2 cows who visited you, not by any posts here or other virtual channels — for we live literal (literal food, literal air, etc.) & do not rely on virtual alone. which leads to the question: “what/who is ‘me’” in cyberspace? it is only when i type now, that i am aware that the 2 of me (the literal fingers typing & the virtual zoro-islamo-yid coming into existence in a space beyond my computer screen) are one. the 2 cow witnesses only validate the “mask behind the mask.” but if we take this virtual realm seriously, why care or need to know the “person” behind the handle?
DOA (daughterofariel) — ah a fellow sojourner through the land of rostum! i particularly am enchanted with the story of seyavoush, khosrow, & esfandiyar. let’s hope that some day they’ll finish the complete verse translation of the shahnameh. (whatever we have now in english is either in prose form or incomplete. even the russians have a complete translation, why not we?) until then, we walk through the truth-testing flames. paradise is just yonder.
June 26th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Just a quick note to say I exist as well as all my brothers and sisters.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
hey there zoro,
you are so right about shahnameh. the english translation was supposed to be finished some 8 or 9 years ago. sohrab and rostam are my personal favorites since their tale is the least tainted by the king who engaged ferdowsi’s services. have you read faridin al attar’s conference of the birds? the simorgue makes her appearance there in quite mystical ways. i was working on that particular aspect quite some time ago. i would love to hear any ideas or comments you have on these pieces. to me, yes indeed a fellow traveller, these are priceless tales of wisdom, the sufi attar knew this most certainly. there is a huge link i made between this particular truth-testing flame, as you so eloquently put it, and the celts. i could go on forever on this topic but am not at all sure you wish to hear my academic blabber. i would like to hear yours. let me know about your familiarity with attar, he is my favorite sufi poet. oooops, how revealing.
yiddishly yours, hannah
June 27th, 2007 at 3:55 am
Zorro,
I hate to join in on the “Zoroastroyid cranial anal inversion thread,” just one more time, but by golly, I guess I am a glutton for punishment so I’ll bite.
Put your money where your mouth is Zorro! You want to exchange emails or proof,then you name the means and I’ll do it. However you say! I am here on the outskirts of Dalet (Dallas). You name the game, I’ll deliver! Of course that means that you and I can no longer be anonymous and that you can’t call the excuse of hiding behind the skirts of your cinematographers! I mean really, you have been extended invitations and courtesies to join us on Paltalk and see for yourself but you always seem to make excuses. Well, why don’t you put up or shut up. Just like anyone who makes any claim, the burden of proof is on you!
You can call me all sorts of crap and even infer it, I don’t mind. However, if you are going to state or even imply our tzaddik, Yalhak, is fabricating each of these posts then I have no choice but to call you out.
Don’t get me wrong. I admire the outlaws and rebels on this blog. But I must ask, are you are a rebel with a cause or are you a rebel for the sake of being a rebel? If I have to explain it to you, then go ahead, slap me with a label that reads, “moron inside,” because I sure as hell am familiar with it and one more joker won’t bother me, not one bit. However, I’ll be damned if you call or imply my Abba a liar!
Aisav
June 27th, 2007 at 4:40 am
aisav,
erger zach nisht. believe me, i’ve been called worse. i think zoro has (in his own way) apologized, or at least as much as he’s going to, for implying (in the nicest possible way, of course) that i’m a liar. but, as i’ve said, i’ve been called a lot worse by a lot better. let’s leave it at that.
abba
June 27th, 2007 at 4:55 am
there are more important things to defend on cow right now than my honor — for example, the threat of excommunication of any jew who reads this blog because it posts writings by and about sabbatai zevi and frank.
for example, i note that you’re the only person so far to accept my invitation on the “Rabbonim and Gedolim to call for charem” thread to put their money where their mouths are by coming out from behind their anonymity (as you and i have done so far) to let the “rabonim and gadolim” who this asshole “truth” is sicking on us exactly who we are when they start passing out the excommunication pink-slips.
it’s one thing to show how smart you are and how good you read hebrew by translating the writings of sabbatai and frank under an untraceable pseudonym — quite another to do it and put your real identity to it even when threatened with excommunication for having done it.
abba
June 27th, 2007 at 5:26 am
not that i believe for one moment that anything will actually come of this “truth’s” call for cow to be placed under charem (i.e., excommunication”.
i think this guy “truth” is just one more, functionally illiterate dumb-fuck charedi whose head is stuck so far up his ass that he hasn’t noticed it’s the 21st century and no one gives a damn about being placed “under the ban” by the rabbis any more.
at least no one who walks their talk rather than just talking.
yalhak
June 29th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
I’m quite certain I exist, and that I’m not a sock puppet.
At any rate, I’m quite new to this group and, although I’m ingesting information quite slowly, I’m finding it to be heady, exhilarating stuff.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:50 am
“When they dig a well at first there must flow up muddy and dirty water untill they come to the sweet, pure water. You fell into a filthy place. If God helps me I will draw you out of that darkness into light.” (j/f dicta #641),i looked eastward from humboltz and could no longer see the herd,than i remembered,from the time spent in wyoming,how in the heat of summer they moved the herd up from the valley floor to the big horn mountains,ever ascending thru the summer months to greener pasture,till the fall and the first snow,then we’d bring em down.I miss the herd,perhaps the wolves have thinned the herd down,perhaps an illness has spread to the heard and they have been thinned out that way.One day the rancher gazes down on the heard and amazes at how healthy they are,he can look out the very next day and see a sickness is taking his herd out.I just do not have any idea whered they are,my hope is,they have moved up to the alpine meadows,where the nights are cool and the days are warm,and as the first snow hits,they will return to the valley floor,for a person who loves the cows,yet remains behind to make hay,it will be a fine day when i see the herd returning,till then,it is sure to be a long,hot,dry summer,dehrst,,,,,,,,love yesod
July 8th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
yeah, it’s hard to find clear pastures in midtown manhattan. the last i heard, they went grazing in central park near 103.
although online they has not been as much bovine activity as of late, yet offline there has been activity apleanty: new cholent venue, carlebach shabbat, sunday picnics, films, travels, festivals, etc.
don’t worry, the cows will soon be returning in dust kickin stampede…
August 2nd, 2007 at 5:26 am
I do exist
At least I think so
August 27th, 2007 at 11:58 am
“While yet in Iwanie, a certain lame Rafa asked the Lord, If someone in particular of
the Company should be guilty [of something], will you punish all of them for it? The
Lord answered, If someone should drill a hole in a ship, will not all be endangered? Just
so all of you sit in one ship.”,,,,,,,love yesod
August 27th, 2007 at 11:59 am
from (j/f dicta,#6)
February 18th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
may you and your memory be blotted
February 19th, 2009 at 9:23 am
thank you for the kind words,and may you treat your wife just a little bit better,,,,,,,love,,,,,,,yesod