Lakewood OD (Shua Finkelstein) victim of abuse
follow up to Lakewood Bochur Killed by Percocet OD
The following was written by Shua Finkelstein hy'd a bit before his death
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=132867835462 There is thing called child molestation that we have all heard of we all know it happens in different places we all know maybe priests or that creepy uncle.Let me tell you a little about this thing and first hand what it can do to a kid. A frum child is molested he knows nothing about tummah and kedusha all he knows is that he was violated that his body is a toy thats what gets engraved into his brain not that he is a person worthy of respect but that he is an object a tool. This kid grows up he knows nothing of sex all he knows is that he is dirty and that his rabbis say sex is bad he doesn't understand he thinks he is bad any mussar shmooz he hears it directly at him and this innocent kid begins to believe of himself as a bad person.Nobody likes being bad he will look for a place with no expectations of him a place were he can be free to fit in a world where everybody is bad….Chances are he will either convince himself this is the normal and pass it in to another innocent child or he will resort to rebelling to prove to himself he is as bad as he thinks he is……Often he will find drugs to take him away to give him an escape from his horrible reality….That being said…Did you ever notice a support our troops symbol on the back of somebody's car? do you know what that represents? that means that thousands of miles there are people no different then yourself fighting a war and that we support them that gives them the morals they need to keep doing what they must do in order to protect us.I dont expect to see "save our kids" on the back of all of our cars but is it too much to ask that each and everyone of us do our part???I will not mention names but there was one play group accused cased closed and dealt with. thats a start but that should send a chill down your spine theses are kids we are talking about…. there is another play group that is still open after over 5 cases have been brought against it!!!!! do you love your kids???? theses are the same kids that some vaad in lakewood will put in ad in the paper to protect from cellphone texting or god forbid a concert but did you see an ad sayingGuard your kids!!!!?DO research!!!!! If your in doubt dont send them there!A play group that has had 5 allegations against it is still open????? Of course its there parnasah we are so worried about…Maybe i should fill you in on some facts there is a jewish rehab whose name i will not mention that deals with kids whose lives are in danger i spoke to the intake administrator there about the cliental from Lakewood and i was told 99.% of all kids from lakewood Yes lakewood our holy town who doesn't allow text messaging were molested in this town!!!!! and that is what led to there addiction! now some facts of this rehab which has a high success rate 50% dont stay clean and out of all the jewish kids there that leave and relapse there is an average of 3 jewish souls that die a year!!! Murdered by you and me and all of us unwilling to take a stand against these people in our community the rabbis are scared to do anything? its political?? how dare they say that?? this is life and death we are killing kids over here we are condemning them to a life of misery of lonely depression and god forbid of passing on this horrible sickness.IT IS YOUR DUTY as a Jew, As a Human to find these people in our community and no longer let them live among us!!!! 'Oy le rosha Oy le schayno' I think over here we are all the reshoim if we sit back and do nothing!! and if you dare say you are worried that people in play groups will lose there jobs there is some math you may want to do. a rehab a 6 month program to give a molested kid a chance $5,000 per months totals $30,000 now this place on average has 20 kids per six months thats $60,000 do you want me to count in the average fee of therapy $150-per hour????? or maybe you want the numbers i got from the local funeral homes?????? WAKE UP!!!!!! Ask yourself honestly is it that you are truly concerned about this just isn't your place or do you just not know what to do? I think trying to be worried about innocent money just went the window….This cannot be hidden any more!!!!! you know something speak up!!! have you been thru this??? share your story, help create support groups Help publicize this letter share your story…. If you are an offender seek help it can be done your amends will not be easy but it can be done.You can make one fatal mistake and that is to try and hide and think you will get passed by come out help fix the wrong before you will no longer have that chance EVER.If we all get together as a town to help weed this community it can be done with minimal damage. Anybody innocent who may receive slight setbacks because of this consider it your part in saving a life. ASHRECHA (Shua Finkelstein)hat tip to "abuse survivor"
Judaism.com
March 4th, 2009 at 11:31 am
scary shit.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:45 am
vosizneias is so full of bullshit. 176 comments on this story and nothing, nothing! about what really happened.
http://www.vosizneias.com/28207/2009/03/01/lakewood-nj-teenager-killed-by-drug-overdose/
March 4th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
scary shit is right. I usually don’t approve of meah shearim style action but I would make an excpetion to see these people swinging from lamp posts.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
de profundis, so what realy happened?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
why is it necessary to post this.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Oh my God, are you people serious? This is the most important piece of writing to come out of the Jewish Community since Hillel Zeitlien was niftar. Can we mass e-mail this to every Jewish Day School account?
March 4th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
this just in:
http://jta.org/news/article/2009/03/04/1003456/rabbi-cross-examines-daughter-in-sex-trial
March 5th, 2009 at 1:56 am
looking at the photo of shua makes my blood boil because i know so many “frum” people see somebody in a t-shirt and jeans and think “nu, who cares, he wasn’t one of us.”
the lakewooder roshei yeshiva are 4 horses hitched to a wagon they keep pulling, wearing blinders.
March 5th, 2009 at 3:58 am
in the days of old they sacraficed them to moloch, in modern times they sacrafice them to some leaders and some rabbis,,”When moshiach comes,It will not first ask,where are the scholars and fine jews,no,what will be asked first is,where are your children.”(chafetz chaim),,,,,,,love,,,,,,,yesod
March 5th, 2009 at 7:21 am
THE AMAZING LIES At VOSIZNEIAS CONTINUES. THEY HAVE THE CHUTZPAH, AFTER IGNORING THE VERY SUICIDE NOTE TO POST THIS
“New York - Action, Not Day Of ‘Chizuk’, Needed In Combating Abuse In The Frum Community”
FUCKING MAMZERIM. FUCKING ROTZCHIM. FUCKING BASTARDS.
March 5th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Best comment on VIN:
if my kid went to a lipa concert i would send him to boot camp even if all they served was chazer
And the runner-up:
I don’t blame J2 for being open Motzoi Shabbos and becoming a hangout.
Lakewood used to be free of all eateries that had sit-downs and had take out ONLY to avoid having hang-outs (I know, it’s hard for New Yorkers to imagine such ideals). Then along came one food establishment who decided to break the rule and “paved the way” for every place to follow suit. That helped contribute to the spiritual decline of what used to be a town of spirituality (the cheaper home prices that brought many Boro Parkers and Flatbush people in didn’t help either). That place will bear responsibility for that, no matter how much the owner denies it being his fault.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:02 am
whoever wrote that fuckin retarted letter about child molestation is a fuckin idiot im not saying its not sad (because it is) and i dont wish it upon anybody but its just an excuse for this stupid shit that this kid did!!!
excuses excuses and more excuses stop trash talking everbody but this kid its sad but grow the fuck up
March 5th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Looking for answers,
why, and for what reason are we so haunted and privy by this deadly reality of drugs and substance abuse,now. As opposed to previous generations the gedolim for some reason did not have to deal with these issues. It seems the overall liberalism of general society vs.. fanatic extreme of orthodoxy e.g Lakewood. Creates this, either your extreme close minded torah abiding Jew(which to the extreme that is the goal of torah,rather be close minded then be open minded and have your brains fall out etc..),or your a complete nothing.
The no grey area,either black or white,which had to be done when modernization of technology changed the scope of reality.There is no arguing, a movie is much more enticing to the average boy than a blat gemorah.So how do you stop the enticement of western society,by completely shutting down the even thought of it.This was and is the path selected by Lakewood Jews and focuses many others. Now this creates the unfortunate reality,that when a Lakewood boy starts wearing jeans,in order to shield the others they knock down this boy.HE is different, off the direct,bad etc. In a certain way this is the perushim(chazal) vs. tzedokim(Hellenistic jews) battle,where lets seclude our own people from greek society,that is the only way to survive spiritually.
The concepts and ideas these young lakewood boys are getting are from the unfortunate reality western society provides,sports, movies,tv,music,internet garbage. If a man committed suicide many years ago he was considered mentally unstable etc. these excuses don’t work any more.period. Its over,liberalism of society,fried everything,made everything normal. Even if you have a desire to screw your friend its normal………… The fact is nothing works anymore, the bible overall is to extreme,its authoritative,so how the hell is orthodox jewry supposed to deal with these issues become modern,open up rehab clinics in the center of lakewood? Teach the kids about drugs, and underage pregnancy? frum Judaism will go straight down the drain!! What is the answer??? as far as I see it,none! Yes, the sick molesting perverts should go to the prison cells,that is something you can go ahead attack the lakewood rabonim for. To go ahead and blame the rabbis for the disastrous drug problem,totally?! These sick ideas, today’s kids getting are from the sick liberal world,we live in! What the above article suggests sadly,maybe solves a tiny spectrum of the problem,but in no way solves any of it overall.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:38 am
it’s not the crime it’s the cover-up. - Richard Nixon
there are going to be molesters. the healthy approach is to be open about it. educate children and parents to be on the alert and of telltale signs. the molesters have to be removed from children. but instead because eyn bayis asher eyn shom meys - that every rov and godol’s family has either a molester or some other freak in it they choose to deny and intimidate anybody who tries to bring it to light. ultimately the infection they have will eat away at them. the bloom of frumkeit in america is a young phenomenon it will b’ezras hashem soon die.
March 5th, 2009 at 11:09 am
chaptzem the antitzemach and failed messiah all link to 7faycow fot this story
March 5th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Isnt that a bit too dark???
March 5th, 2009 at 11:23 am
i hope people are going to the facebook link where those who knew and loved him are writing. in case they’re not ASHRECHA was the name of an organization Shua wanted to start to deal with the molestation problem. it doesn’t have to die with him. his friends are also collecting for other worthwhile endeavors. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=132867835462
and once again i’d like to thank “abuse survivor” for bringing this incredibly important piece to our attention - ashrecha v’tov loch
March 5th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
i think it’s retarted that u put ’shua finkelstein’ in parentheses.
March 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Though I didn’t know Shua or his family, it is very hard to hear about losing another child in this way.
If anyone is out there reading this that needs help please ask for it. Too many people don’t know that there are ways to deal with things that are so painful and difficult to talk about.
The SOVRI Helpline is an ANONYMOUS and CONFIDENTIAL helpline for orthodox survivors of sexual abuse. It is open from 9:30am-5:30pm Monday-Thursday and 9:30am-1:30pm on Friday. The phone number is 212.844.1495. We are here to listen to anything you want to talk about, even if you want to talk about dealing with a friend who has been hurt. Please call if you want to talk or if you need help.
March 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
this was not a case of suicide,and hardly a case of OD,professionals believe is was a result of choking in his sleep……
so please change the title,it is disrespectful to the one i love most.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
i’m very sorry for your loss but without hard facts i feel this is more of a kovod to him and his mission.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
shithead
i love how the things you hate the most about the system you perpetuate.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
i really enjoy your blog though.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Coverup? denial? can we take her seriously? the lakewood kids are saying nothing about drugs… similar (false) rumours spread about BK in CH
March 5th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
i fully admit to hypocrisy and many other faults. we too feel like we’re on a mission to open things up and break down walls and we make plenty of mistakes and grober aveyros but we never claim daas toyreh and if it has any content always post our detractors and haters.
March 5th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
whos this girl whos defending this dude he fucked up and thats it grow up and live with it bullshit5 he chocked he od and tell this whore to stop defending him
March 5th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
give her a break, have a heart, she lost her boyfriend
March 5th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
mike, for your words god will grant you and ur kids some forced fist-fucks. why don’t you show your face, or come tonight to chulent, and i can arrange for your ass to get gang-banged.
______
the most important part of this post is shitalphin categorizing it under “torah”. he’s very subtle, that alph.
______
fucking frum fuckers. i am beginning to understand the Yevsektsiya under the nkvd (kgb)
March 5th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
As long as you admit that I repect u even if I don’t rerpect ur opinion.
De profundis
You just started understanding the yevsektsya
March 5th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
if anybody doubts my tzidkus let them know that i’ve held back from posting anything about A-Roid’s injury (there is a G-d) so this story gets its due. s’kost mir op a shtik gezunt.
March 6th, 2009 at 2:56 am
DONT YOU STATE YOUR OPINONS ON MY BROTHER AS FACT-ESPECIALLY IF U DIDNT KNOW HIM. YOU HAE NO CLUE WHAT YOURE TALKING BOUT, WHICH IS POSSIBLY BECAUSE YOU WERENT RAPED OR MOLESTED. LUCKY FUCKING YOU.
March 6th, 2009 at 3:07 am
and mike, thats his fiaance your talkin bout. do u have anyone you love? picture her or him-the on eyou love most. try to think how you would feel then shut the fuck up. i dunno who you are but my brothe rhas power up ther and i hope he makes you burn in hell. and btw are you getting so defensive because were attacking your hobby?
March 6th, 2009 at 5:45 am
that “system” is flawed,like most everything,addmitt that,and that’s a start,defend that sytem,and kiss the children goodby,,really,you may never see them again,my hope is that the peace he sought here,and could not find,is afforded to him there,by those that truly loved him from the begining,,,,,,,love,,,,,,,yesod
March 6th, 2009 at 11:09 am
sorry girls i only meant tostop these blogs and facebook pages and move on with life stop living with the past and move on thats it sorry if it offended u (btw ur right my biggest pleasure in life, is od-ing)
March 6th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
You’re all nice kids.
But as I said before, keep taking the drugs you’ll OD.
and when you’re dead, it won’t matter why you were taking it and who you were blaming your life on.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Shushan Purim Wednesday March 11 - Nullify the decree!
HELP STOP SEX ABUSE IN YOUR COMMUNITY
On March 11, Shushan Purim, there will be buses of children’s advocates leaving New York City to lobby state legislators for extension to the statues of limitations. Although it is a whole day trip, anyone who can participate will be doing a great mitzvah. The Catholic Church is arguing to keep the Statute Of Limitation’s. We must go and say NO! We want the laws changed so we can protect OUR children. Let’s all try to go. Let’s all pray that justice prevails.
What is the Child Victims Act?
1 in 5 children in America are molested and less than ten percent of their cases are ever brought to court. Thanks to outdated statute of limitations, sexual abuse victims only have a tiny window to bring their abusers to a court of law. Most victims of sexual abuse are only able to come forward until decades after the abuse occurred which makes prosecution impossible. Victims are penalized and sexual abusers are free to roam and create more victims.
The Child Victim Act of New York State legislation aims to change that. The bill extends the statute of limitations for both criminal and civil charges for sexual abuse victims as well as opens up a window to bring any sexual abuse cases that are currently beyond the statute of limitations. This means less abusers on the street and less victims.
Currently, a number of states have already abolished the statute of limitations and others have already passed legislation similar to The Child Victims Act. States are realizing that the only way to properly protect children is by enabling them to bring their abusers to court. Only with the passage of the Child Victim Act will our children be safe.
For those interested in supporting this cause and to RSVP, please e-mail
sfjalbanytrip@gmail.com.
March 6th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
i would like to blow myself up as a suicide bomber in a shul on a friday night with a packed crowd of frum jews from all backgrounds.
March 6th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
wtf??? do any of u know what the hell ur talking about at all? were any of you molested? raped? obviously not if you can say such disgusting things like that. do u know what it feels like to not be able to sleep bc you feel hands all over you…. you shake all night bc ur scared to go to sleep… ur terrified of the nightmares?!?!??!?! you obviously dont. there is no moving on past it bc its a part of your life even when the molest is over…… you have no idea SWO FUCK YOU ALLL!!!!!!!!!!!
March 6th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
and mike, when i asked you if were attacking your hobby i was asking if your a pedafile yourself.
March 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
was shua finkelstein killed by the lakewood rabbonim because he knew too much and they didnt want him to talk?
March 6th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Usually I would use this opportunity to make off color jokes that make fun of this kind of tragedy.When I do it, it is not because I find death funny.Instead of looking deep inside myself and facing my emotions, it is easier for me to be a coward and just laugh it off as gallows humor.
I will not make jokes in this case.It has nothing to do with me growing up or maturing.I am still the same twisted person I was yesterday and will be tomorrow.
But I read some things about Shua and I related to the pain and suffering that he went through.I also respect the fact that he tried to help other victims of abuse.
It is tragic that such a bright person had his life cut short.He seems to have had so much potential to help others and to effect positive change in our fractured community.
I send my heartfelt condolences to his friends and family.May they never again face such pain and tragedy.
And may we all contribute to help continue Shua’s mission of preventing abuse and assisting those who have been victims of abuse.
I dont believe I have ever met Shua Finkelstein , but I feel like I have known him my entire life.
ASHREICHA !
March 7th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
very touching, Jimmy
March 7th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
and Levi brings up an interesting angle
March 7th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
yup u got it girl its sexual abuse and od-ing together
March 7th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
To Shira and Blumie: Im so sorry for both of yours loss but one thing id like to tell you both is to not listen to all the disgusting thing people on the blog are saying they are just bored misunderstanding souls that have no life. I personally never had the privilege of meeting Shua but I do know many of his friends like (this names in code) Shimon Dave and others. I just want to tell you both that I never lost someone the way you both did but there are people i knew that have past before there time some by death and some by other means and one thing iv come to notice is you have to pick yourself up and move on i may have not known Shua but i do know he would want you both to go and continue your lives to be the best people you can. Now when i say move on i do not mean to forget him because you both never will. Blumie it will take time but you will find another man to love and when you do you dont have to feel as if your betraying Shua because he wants you to be happy so do not feel ashamed when you find someone else. Im only 17 but I have seen and lived through alot more then most people my age have so if either of you would like to speak on anything email me at avo172@yahoo.com
March 8th, 2009 at 12:59 am
this is fucked up. its a bunch of ppl who probably are molesters, or ppl covering for molesters!!! not worth the effort of even saying anything, but for shira and blumie- there is a future, many happy simchas!!! u will come through and move on, bc that is what shua wants….
and for all those ppl talkng about oding, addiction is a disease, u know how i know? for 1 it is in the dsm-iv, another being that health insurance covers rehab both inpatient and outpatient…. if it wasnt a disease health insurance wouldnt pay for it!!! common sense!!!
March 8th, 2009 at 1:35 am
blumie it looks like this guy “go26″ is interested in having sex with you.
March 8th, 2009 at 5:01 am
clearly is
March 8th, 2009 at 9:37 am
ah aza chuzpuh
March 8th, 2009 at 9:38 am
go26 is shameless.
if you’re so insecure, pick up some meeyus 2 am girl at the bar.
not some poor mourning soul.
March 8th, 2009 at 9:51 am
comment on chaptzem:
“This is a rant by someone who abused drugs which fry the brain. Anything said by this person may be the result of delusions. (it may 100% true or 100% false.)
This letter should not have been posted!”
way to go bro
March 8th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
To everyone on this blog;
What in heavens name are you people thinking??
Regardless of your opinion on molestation and drugs,
think about a more important thing, HUMAN DECENCY.
We aren’t talking about the World Series that we lost. Were talking
about another person! Can you imagine what type of pain
you’re causing the niftar’s family? Do you honestly think that your
blogging is going to change the world? If you have a concern, go to your
Rav and discuss it with him. I am not saying anything against blogging, but I am saying that you will need a few Yom Kippurs so that you dont have to burn in Gehenom for what you have been writing.
And food for thought, YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THEN THAT CHILD MOLESTER.
He caused someone else pain and suffering because he was insensitive and selfish, and you are ranting for your own personal ego/vendetta/trauma at the cost of someone else’s pain. Can you imagine the family’s pain from reading some of this? Do you have any idea what it’s like to lose someone you love, and then to hear the memory of him being put on trial? I never met Shua, but I almost threw up from reading what some people wrote. DO YOU KNOW WHAT COWARDS YOU ARE FOR BASHING SOMEONE AFTER HE’S GONE??!?!
And for all those who think go26 is writing for his own benefit. Just because you are so F****** selfish that you can’t even comprehend doing something for someone else, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t good people left in the world. There are many people, that you all know, that live with secrets and pain, and the biggest consolation to someone who’s been through hell on earth and recovered, is to be able to help other people from having to suffer like they did.
I’m asking mechila in advance from all the people I’m accusing, because for all I know you’ve been through the same experience and are writing this because you are in denial or pain or for some other reason I don;t know of.
To all those people that loved Shua;
When a neshama is put on this earth, It comes with
a job to fulfill. Sometimes it takes them a whole lifetime to
fulfill and sometimes it can be earlier on in life.
Shua was niftar NOT because of anything that he did or was done to him.
He was niftar, because Hashem who put Shua on this world, decided it was best for him and Klal Yisroel to return to the Olam HaEmes.
Though Shua’s death wasn’t a sacrafice you signed up for, you are all credited for what the Jewish world will hopefully gain from this and the countless lives and neshamos that will be spared a life of pain ad suffering.
HaMakom yenachem et’chem b’toch shar avay’lay Tzion vee’Yerushalayim
and may we all be zoche to see the Geullah
March 8th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
bystander,
thank you. ever since this tragedy came to my attention i said we’re missing one character: the ernste, tmimusdike, outraged, little balebos. “HOW CAN YOU SPEAK LIKE THAT AGAINST THE ROSH YESHIVAH!!!” “THE ROSH YESHIVAH IS DAAS TORAH!!!” but now that you’ve accomplished your tachlis on the velt and informed us who deserves to die when, i think i hear your daf yomi or artscroll megilas esther calling.
March 8th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
shitalphin;
Your response to this thread did not make much sense.
But I won’t ask you to elaborate, as it would probably
cause more pain to alot of people.
And, I’m not judging you, rather what you have done.
March 8th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
idiots shua spoke the truth and dont go sying it fake hes wa and still is right ,this boy is now niftar meaning he is no longer among us he probobly is in gaan eden dont go making fun of people that tell t truth and if you still do its probobly cuz u know its true and u have something to hide
he was niftar and that was pretty much his last wish act upon it
not like the sick in the had fake rabbi named kolko hes sich in the head and going to hell you better believe it
March 8th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
bystander,
you don’t get it you chicken shit? you think you’re the only one who can get angry. what the fuck is this?
“When a neshama is put on this earth, It comes with
a job to fulfill. Sometimes it takes them a whole lifetime to
fulfill and sometimes it can be earlier on in life.
Shua was niftar NOT because of anything that he did or was done to him.
He was niftar, because Hashem who put Shua on this world, decided it was best for him and Klal Yisroel to return to the Olam HaEmes.”
do you speak to god? does god speak to you? no, of course not because you masturbate. so how do you know what god does? can somebody commit murder? did his molester perhaps commit the murder of shua?
but you’ve got it all figured out. who god saves and who he lets die because your rebbe told you so or you read it in a sefer by pesach krohn, you moron. go back to yeshiva world news. this place is for people who see a world that isn’t ruled by right and wrong but a world that caused moshe rabeynu to ask god about tzadik v’ra lo. i’m always amazed that moshe couldn’t figure out what is so obvious and simple and acceptable to you. how did he have the chutzpah to ask god “lomo hareyoso lo’am hazeh?”
you think your little frum hashkofa is the perfect nichum.
there’s a vort from the kotzker: how did chazal know peninah l’shem shomayim niskavnah? because “l’shem shomayim” is the only way a person could be so cruel.
March 8th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Alphin,
Spare the rod on Bystander, he is probably a young bochur searching for meaning.What you should do is go after the cocksucker TheAntiTzemach.He has a post talking shit about the cows and he fits the stereotype of the “know it all” frummie.After all he is a Lubby and they have all the answers.
March 8th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
look i don’t know bystander and i wish him well it’s just what he represents. if we can just get people thinking instead of regurgitating. i like antitzemach i don’t know what happened to him. he “consciously” chose chabad and now he’s got to justify it. GOOD LUCK.
March 8th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
shitalphin;
You’re absolutely right. I shouldn’t put my Hashkofa on you (even though it was meant as consolation to the family and not you) but you can’t ignore the fact about being a decent human being and not causing pain to the niftar’s parents.
March 8th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
why can’t something just be tragic? Nietzsche said religion stole tragedy from life and philosophically he’s right. god’s in charge and always does the right thing so something can be sad but not tragic. but i always felt that jews on the gut level never accepted that. they know a jew fights with god like abraham and moses did. to most jews god almost never does anything right. then come along rabbis and in some effort to be smarter they explain the holocaust and everything else and they try to rob us of our natural, healthier feelings.
on 7FC you’re allowed to say FUCK GOD, FUCK THE TORAH and especially FUCK THE RABBIS.
March 8th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
shitalphin;
Please be the man you pretend to be, and answer the question.
WHAT ABOUT HUMAN DECENCY? So regardless of the comments in your last line, EVERYONE agrees that you should be a decent human being and not cause pain to the niftar’s family.
March 8th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
what comment exactly do you imagine causes pain? or is it the entire post? you are saying we should all just hide our heads in the sand because truth is painful? like he said: go back to VIN, that’s the place for ostriches
March 8th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
FUCK THE HAYYLIGER TOIYYRREH, is more like it
March 8th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
“you should be a decent human being and not cause pain to the niftar’s family.”
how about instead
you should be a decent human being and not cause pain to families of future niftars.
March 8th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
This is the only reason I do what I do…… so souls like this one know they are not alone!
March 8th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
bystander sure chose the right name
March 8th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
hi jennifer, shira, and blumie.
I know you are all in pain over the death of shua finkelstein.
I want to help.I invite you over to my house (my parents are away in israel)
we have a hot tub and we can all get naked and drink beers and talk about nice memories of shua. and whoever wants can come to my bed and i will please you and make you forget about all the pain.
March 8th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
that’s not funny
March 8th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
bystander,
i don’t think we’ve begun to touch on your comments:
“Regardless of your opinion on molestation and drugs,
think about a more important thing, HUMAN DECENCY.”
is human decency more important than dealing with these issues?
“We aren’t talking about the World Series that we lost. Were talking
about another person! Can you imagine what type of pain
you’re causing the niftar’s family?”
hopefully, their son’s death is their worst pain.
“Do you honestly think that your
blogging is going to change the world?”
don’t know, probably not but what does, maybe, who knows, maybe it’ll change one person and as the talmud says…
” If you have a concern, go to your
Rav and discuss it with him.”
at least you have a sense of humor.
“I am not saying anything against blogging, but I am saying that you will need a few Yom Kippurs so that you dont have to burn in Gehenom for what you have been writing.”
ouch. i think you might be plagiarizing: loshon hora, lamed hay, go to gehenom the easy way.
“And food for thought, YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THEN THAT CHILD MOLESTER.
He caused someone else pain and suffering because he was insensitive and selfish, and you are ranting for your own personal ego/vendetta/trauma at the cost of someone else’s pain.”
i think there’s a difference but maybe we should talk to an abuse victim and ask them whether being written about on a blog is the same as being molested. maybe we should go biblical/talmudic and figure how much one would pay not to be molested and how much one would pay not to be blogged about.
“Can you imagine the family’s pain from reading some of this?”
no. maybe it’s a lot if they actually read this, maybe not. may be they’ve suffered and heard worse things over the years that their son has been suffering and maybe not fitting the image of other people’s concept of a ben torah.
“Do you have any idea what it’s like to lose someone you love, and then to hear the memory of him being put on trial?”
yes. every time some godol/rabbi says what the cause of the holocaust was.
” I never met Shua, but I almost threw up from reading what some people wrote. DO YOU KNOW WHAT COWARDS YOU ARE FOR BASHING SOMEONE AFTER HE’S GONE??!?! ”
good point. we put up a notice at one point that only brave people are allowed to write on this blog but nobody wrote.
March 9th, 2009 at 1:26 am
I read what everyone is writing and I dont understand you he’s dead, who are any of us to sit and talk about him? do we have the right to chat about someone we don’t know if he’s dead or alive? we all read the article that he wrote its posted almost everywhere, but say what you want he can’t hear you, so your provoking someone no longer alive? if you feel inspired by the note, like most caring ppl, that’s amazing DO SOMETHING, dont just sit and talk about it, its purim donate money to an organization that deals with that, anything, just don’t sit and talk.
March 9th, 2009 at 1:55 am
shitalphin;
You’re officially an ass… but you do have a sense of humor!
So I guess since I gave you a compliment that means were friends
And I’m still convinced that you’re initials are TK.
In addition, now that were friends :p, do me a personal favor
and leave this forum alone (You can leave one more thread either cursing me out or confirming our new-found friendship;)
It’s worth it to do me the favor, cuz I’ll owe you one. (p.s. and god might add a bonus too!)
March 9th, 2009 at 3:40 am
i saw god last night,up on st mark,we smoked together,then i said,is it true,you give out bonuses,she said that in these hard economic times there shall be no more bonuses,as always,,,,,,,love,,,,,,,yesod
March 9th, 2009 at 7:30 am
bs,
this TK sounds like a great person, unfortunately, the only one I can think of is teddy kollek. this forum will go on as long as people show interest which with purim upon us, tzum badoyeren, probably won’t be long.
let us just agree to listen to people, really listen, without pat answers or preconceived notions, for a person, being heard is powerful medicine.
March 9th, 2009 at 10:52 am
ok,
you ppl are sad.
he wrote this letter to send a message out to the world,if you want to join the club and help,do so.
if not-please do not be disrespectful,to shua,to his family,or to shira and i.
get a punching bag or something,no one is perfect and you should thank g-d every day that you dont have the pain he had,the pain he had to numb….
the disease he was in the process of overcoming….
its a disease that does not leave a victim ever,it is like a cancer patient being in recovery….it can always come back.
please,please do not right these disgusting things.
wish you much luck,only simchos.
March 9th, 2009 at 11:18 am
the person whom i know who has done much for abused charedim is shitalphin. for over twenty years his various apartments have been safe houses and havens and he has saved and helped the lives of many who went through this and other madness in the frum world.
perhaps that is why he feels so strongly about it. the results of the lies, hypocrisy and evil perpetrated by many in the frum world arrive literally at his doorstep.
March 9th, 2009 at 11:21 am
shitalphin;
YOU ALREADY USED YOUR LAST RESPONSE ON THIS THREAD, SO YOU CANNOT RESPOND TO “Was to be Mrs. Shua Finkelstein”
Was to be Mrs. Shua Finkelstein;
I agree with you that it is horrible what is being written. Unfortunately we live in a world with a lot of shmucks, (i.e. shitalphin) and for your own sake and for the sake of Shua’s memory, don’t read this forum. Trust me, I’ll continue to defend his honor for you.
March 9th, 2009 at 11:23 am
de profundis;
You can argue it out with shitalphin who deserves the title of shmuck!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:29 am
bystander,
yekalelecho adoinoi v’yikalelecho, you should suffer spiritually emotionally and physically and you should experience what others have gone through, only worse; let the blood of those fallen rise to the heavens and curse you with demonic nights and horrid days. may you get cancer. may you die. may your kids get molested and jump off roofs and od on oxycontin. maybe then you heart will have opened up.
yekalelecho adoinoi v’yikalelecho
March 9th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
“Trust me, I’ll continue to defend his honor for you.”
Bystander is definitely trying to get laid.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
de profundis;
May you be blessed with clarity in life and a complete recovery from your self-hatred and you should be healthy and happy and do good for others!
shitalphin;
I gotta say I’m very impressed, I didn’t think you could actually resist. Maybe you can teach de profundis a thing or two!
March 9th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
if after what i wrote about what shitalphin does, and may i add that his agenda is always purely humanistic, not to convince frummies to leave torah. i have seen just in the past year several frummies from leading families in chabad and satmar, who were not at all involved in drugs but who were a bit eccentric and not fitting in in the frum world. they are still frum until today. yet they were thrown out of their homes treated like shit placed in state psychiatric wards for two years. just two years ago shitalphin got a guy released from a state psychiatric ward and helped him get back on is feet. he stayed in shitalphin’s apartment for six months. the guy don’t do drugs, is a lamdan, and would shame you with his complete adherence to the letter of the law. yet his fucked up family, and fucked up families there are but too many in the frum world, threw him out like a dog, like what we claim the nazis did.
so please don’t tell me what and who shitalphin is.
if the frum world had people like him in leadership positions, volt does oisgekukt gantz andersh. (and for the am ha’aretz ba’al teshuvoh that i think you are, that translates, “it would look completely different”.)
March 9th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
so while hte rest of you pretend to be frum, shitalphin has been saving the lives of those whom you rejected. while you were all standing by.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
this might go down as greatest jewish blog post in the history of the internet.
March 9th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
this has never happened before . this is scray ad i think will be the final makah b’patish to bring the scary reality home
March 9th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
why didn’t my comment post?
March 9th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
so worried about the dead guy’s kovod, but shitalphin’s chopped liver, you can curse and denigrate him freely? here on 7FC the editorial policy seems that everybody’s kovod is equally trashable (except for the lubavitcher rebbe if Radloh is still around - and of course our own venerable fount of wisdom, Reb YLH”K Sheyichye le’oirech yomin, veshonim tovos umesukos)
Why don’t we talk about implied patriarchy here?
1. “Was to be Mrs. Shua Finkelstein”
- because the woman becomes entirely subjugated to the man?
2. “defend his honor for you”
- because women are weak, and must be defended by strong men? - the traditional ‘champion’ role in western culture (which is a factor in romance, thus implying that you are hitting on her, which is where moishe pippik’s comment comes from)
On another note, neither ‘Ms. was to nisbatel’, Shira, nor their eager ‘champions’, have coherently stated which comments specifically they find objectionable, and why - or whether it was the post itself - which is only a quote from the niftar (they also seem to be implying that 7fc is responsible for the individual comments - do you see censorship as an ideal? isn’t that counter to the niftar’s goal with Ashrecha; the very obstacle he was fighting?)
March 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I’ve got an idea. somebody should start a website similar to that of ratemyprofessors.com, in which you search for ratings/info on professors across the US and their courses. instead, call it ratemyrabbi/ratemyyeshiva/ratemyshul, and you can do a search and find info on rabbis anywhere and everywhere, so you know what you’re getting yourself into in advance. rabbis are also often deluded about their own popularity, and this would be a helpful way for them to look up ratings on themselves.
unpopular/negative comments will also force rabbis &/ their supporters to write positive comments in return, so in the end a somewhat balanced picture should emerge.
the internet is moshiach. yechi hamelech
March 9th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
bs,
i thought not responding was to be a mutual agreement. i’m not responding because from the levayas i’ve been to it seems you don’t interrupt your own hespedim. and i thought you, bs, were just an interloper but now i see you’re just another lonely soul like the rest of us and if we’re to consider this a beis midrash we need at least one inane baal musar like yourself.
March 9th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
shitalphin;
You just couldn’t hold out! I’m assuming that you were/ are an addict of some type because they suffer from the same symptom. No Control!
But I will only be staying in this “Beis Midrash” till the topic us done. Cuz I couldnt care less about “Two Intimate Moments between the Rayatz and the Ramash” or any other conversations.
Also, you have de profundis to cover all the things you would’ve said if you leave this topic, but I don’t have anyone to cover for me.
pseudonym:
“so worried about the dead guy’s kovod, but shitalphin’s chopped liver, you can curse and denigrate him freely?”
Come on. I think I was OVERLY cautious in not over stepping boundries. In addition, I’m not worried about the niftar’s Kovod, I’m sure he can handle that from heaven. I’m worried about the family’s feelings.
March 9th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
BS: you didn’t answer my other question, maybe you are a talmudist, so let me rehash all angles for you:
What specifically do you feel infringes on the family’s sensibilities
If you think that the post, Gufah, is offensive, are these not the niftar’s words on a topic that he was extremely concerned about? What right do you or the family have to suppress it?
If you think that the specific comments are offensive, then why are you addressing this post in a general manner, these are the opinions of individual commentators, and your remarks should be addressed to them.
B’chol mikreh, l’deiosi, the family’s ‘kovod’ is a negligible issue, when contrasted with the broad reaching implications that cover-ups and denials have for these communities as a whole, like i said before, this is not a forum for ostriches. The niftar was trying to battle the ostriches in his own community, and seemingly that includes you. if the family’s selfish interest for prestigious shidduchim and other fachnyokte mishegas means they are willing to keep hiding their heads in the sand, and stifle their son in death as they had in life, that has absolutely no bearing on my actions
If you find the reference to opioids in the title offensive, being that we were not the ones to break the story, i would demand contrary evidence, such as a coroner’s report, before you have a case for retraction.
March 9th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
b’chlal, i don’t believe that the family’s kovod is your real motivation for attempting to suppress this vital discussion
March 9th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
pseudonym;
Before I write a response, I wanna give credit where credit is due.
That was a nice line!!
March 9th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
bystander,
As pseudonym rightly pointed out, what exactly do you find offensive about this post and the comments on the thread? Yes. There were some nasty remarks – but as far as I can tell not by the 7fc writers. The only comments that were obviously trashing Shua were by Seth and Mike who are random cementers. In fact, I don’t recall shitalphin ever taking a cause so to heart as he did this one – and that is saying a lot if you follow his writing on this blog.
As was mentioned, the kovod of the family is quite negligible as this blog does not feel obligated to respect anyone or anything. Yes, even someone who died. You ask for “human decency” – which the OED defines as “appropriateness or fitness to the circumstances or requirements of the case.” What here is inappropriate or unfit? You don’t seem to be aware of the circumstances or the requirements of the case – which would make you the one who is being entirely inappropriate and violating the norms of “human decency.” Besides, decency is an obvious relative term and can mean anything depending who you are talking to – and remember this is 7fc, not shoimer shabis.
Regardless, if you haven’t noticed, Shua has become a nothing less than a hero for the 7fc writers and that is takeh a huge kovod. The point of the post was not to trash anyone (except “the community” as a whole which is good Jewish sensibility going back to Moshe Rabeinu) but to raise awareness of this issue as was Shua’s most desperate wish. Talk about kovod ha-mes – how can you deny the pain he experienced while he lived and his dying wish to try and change things so less people have to go through what he did? Even the kovod of the family must be disregarded if it is an obstacle toward this goal. This is clear to any bar daas.
I suspect though, that you don’t give a shit about Shua or his family or the people who were abused in the Orthodox community but only for k’vod ha-teyreh and the aura of sanctity you must preserve around your gedolim in order to hold your little world together. Pretty much the only nastly comments were takeh directed davkeh at them. That makes you someone who is capitalizing on another’s misfortunes and feeding into the denials and cover-ups that many of your “gedolim” are perpetuating. That is enabling their continuing murder children – and Shua himself was one of them – and you have the audacity to place, not even kovod ha-mes, but kovod k’roivey ha-mes (I never knew there was such a category), before pekuach nefesh? Before you comment please explain why posting this and raising awareness of the issue in the Orthodox community does not fall under pekuach nefesh.
I hope your warped conscience can have a happy Purim.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
bs,
“But I will only be staying in this “Beis Midrash” till the topic us done.” what do you hope to accomplish here? the post’s up, we’re not censoring responses/comments. the niftar’s family and his supposed betrothed have suffered what they’ll suffer. don’t worry about the past focus on the ATID.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
This shmeeze is so passing for purim ungitrinkineh heit,between bs and pseud…………
March 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
“Cuz I couldnt care less about “Two Intimate Moments between the Rayatz and the Ramash” or any other conversations.”
as reb meir simcha said about the chofetz chayim: you’re a small person from a small town with a small mind.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
u all know what’s coming up. it’s been too long.
March 9th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
I would like to make an official (courtesy) apology to “shitalphin”. My original letter was not addressed to him, but rather to the ones who made nasty remarks, being that he was actively replying to it, it seems as though my remarks were directed toward him. However, regardless of who wrote the remarks, my original comment stands as being directed at EVERYONE, because “shtika k’ hoy’da” (I don’t normally quote sayings, but you guys seem like avid qouter’s)
March 9th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
atgate231, beautiful comment.
bystander,
as atgate231 mentioned none of the nasty comments were from 7fatcow writers and i fail to see what 7fatcow did to hurt the family. the only hurt to the family derives from the very same sick social law which allowed shua to be molested and silenced and killed in the first place. i have yet to find this law in the penatatuch, the prophets, the mishna, the commentaries or in the jewish mystical tradition. in fact this this social law is evil and causes evil to be perpetrated in the frum community, and is the single contributing factor to shua’s murder and the fact that shua’s murder will go unheeded. more children and bochurim are getting molested right now by shua’s murderers. and it is this social law, which is the only basis for your comments, which murders and continues to murder jewish kids.
March 9th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
shitalphin deserves this one but i slid in.
100!
March 9th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
de profundis;
Finnally!!!! It took 99 posts for you to actually write something worth reading!
I now fully throw my support behind de profundis in this issue!
P.S. I was wondering if I could take a Fa’her for this Beis Medrash, because you need a balance.
March 9th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
bystander, i am sure you smoke alot of kenne bosem as is evidenced from the swings in your comments
March 9th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
de profundis;
Npt really alot, only sometimes. But if you reread the context of all my statements, you’ll see I’m pretty stable.
So, was I accepted for a faher or not?
March 10th, 2009 at 6:36 am
the cow does not beat around the bush,rather, they beat the bush down,than chew on IT as cudd,at least here something is being done,you may not like it,so be it,my hope and prayers are that those who do these things to our children,mine,yours,theirs,would be stopped,and that wich remains hidden,would be exsposed,,,,,,,love,,,,,,,yesod
March 10th, 2009 at 7:25 am
bystander,
who do you consider your rebi/rebbe/rov and what are his/her mayles and khisroynes?
March 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
[…] Comments shitalphin on Lakewood OD (Shua Finkelstein) victim of abuseYesod ben Yakov Leib on Lakewood OD (Shua Finkelstein) victim of abuseleah kleim on purim is about […]
March 10th, 2009 at 8:05 am
just saw this article about a novel about teenage suicide. not saying it’s nogeya to shua but stam it might be kday. our insistence that the frum don’t layd from goyishe problemn is crap.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/10/books/10why.html
March 10th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
from Abba (Shua’s father) yes our son left us with broken hearts and shattered dreams of making his wedding, holding his children and enjoying and crying with him in his successes and disappointments. But one thing is clear Shua only wrote this letter and other letters after he felt strong enough to take on this cause for the innocent children who are abused, in addition to many other causes he was working on. Shua was in process of starting a recovery house for lost children from his neighborhood and was setting up counseling and paying for it from his own money. Shua was also helping kids find jobs and encouraging them to hold on to them and help build their character. Shua was also planning to announce his engagement to the beautiful love of his life, which he made clear he wanted to do only when he was sure he had beaten the disease. I know Shua hopes and will be happy for anything we can do to help each other and ourselves. I love you my son and spilling many tears but grateful for the twenty years that Hashem let me have you.
March 10th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
brilliant
BS: shtika kehodo’o doesn’t fly here, we let stupidity speak for itself….
this week’s mishpacha magazine has a story about the evil children’s protective services (how they harass frum yidden needlessly, etc…) i’ve often heard stories on this theme in yeshiva, the idea here was that should you ever think to call them you would be more afraid of them than your current abusers
March 10th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
it is pretty clear that shua was a great guy. He may have had his personal problems that he was dealing with, but he went out of his way to help others.He is the prime example of what ahavas yisroel should be.
some commenters here wrote positive things, others wrote negative things.But I have not read anyones comments that bismirched shua in any way .The negative comments were aimed at (and rightfully so) at the rabbanim who have swept problems under the rug instead of facing and solving them.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
im tying to determine if i met shua a few days before he passed away . Could anyone confirm if he was wearing a full leg cast , about a week or so before he passed away?
March 11th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
that is shua’s older Brother Ari.
March 11th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
to “was to be Mrs. Shua Finkelstein”
would you write a short biography about Shua that we can post on this blog to let the readers know more about who he was and what he stood for ?
there are bits and pieces on a few different blogs but it would be nice to have one complete story.
Of course the purpose would not be to exploit the situation, but rather to inspire others to continue shua’s mission to help abused children.
you can post it in this thread as a comment.
March 11th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
I have an idea. You might not like it but I think its a good one and Im sober and back on my meds writing this idea.
I say we start with Chulent. Most of us on this site go there or have gone there, whatever.
Last night at the purim party I got so wacked out and woke up in a hospital this morning due to alchol poisoining. Hatzola took me there from somewhere or another I dont even know or remember. Im getting emails and texts all day from the many people I pissed off, I dont remember any of it. (and Im sorry)
Chulent is supposed to be a friendly gathering of the lost souls, not a booze and drug get together. I have pills, what do you have ? who can go buy more beer ? etc. I suggest we sober it up !
The lost souls sould should be able to get together and be SOBER and happy and enjoy the night have fun , stop breaking windows, pissing people off and getting kicked out of every other place we find to congragate.
Look whos talking is probably whats going through your head.
After I was discharged from the hospital this morning, under the name Shaina Tuches, address 770 Eastern Parkway for my alcholo poisoning I went to my shrink appointment. making that appointment took alot of force from a lot of people and I had to be driven there and have a Rabbi sit through it with me or I never would have gone.
I am on LEGAL medication now, that I need and have avoided since august.
My head is now more stable and straight. Its 7pm, I opened a beer at 12 pm and havent finished it yet ! Meds do wonders for the ones who need them and I think everyone at chulent needs them but not from each other, from a doctor.
Lets look at the overdoses and suicides, how many of them were “Chulenters” ? HELLO ! WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
We cant be normal civilized functioning members of scosiety the way were going, drinking and drugging, and we sure as hell cant help any other lost soul when all were doind is looking for our next fix. We cant continue someone elses good mission when we dont even have jobs we just have blogs and are always waisted.
I think its time we grow the fuck up, stop overdosing, go to shrinks. get jobs not non profit blogs and make a mark and a difference on this world and prevent others from becoming lost souls like the ones we are. And we cant do that masking our missery by drinking and drugging !
There is a kid out there somewhere who will fall into our laps for guidance, and the way we are going we will fuck him up even more and he will be hooked on coke in two months and then hooked on booze to get rid of the crash and he will become part of our vicious cycle of deppression and self medication and mutilation.
Lets save him instead. Lets sober up !
Leah Kleim.
March 11th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
I am an abuse survivor. I tried it all and done it all. From drinking to overdosing….
I am 28 married with children. I went through hell.
Rabbis knew of the abuse and didn’t help me or my sisters.
Over the years I have met dozens with the same story.
My question is to our so called leaders, where are you?
My life now is an unrealistic miracle. I am successful of my own efforts. I barley survived and almost went many times.
We need more programs, not labels!!!!
We need awarness, honesty, education…on sexuality, molestation and rape. without it people will not make it.
Abuse victims become abusers. stop this chain of sickness.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Public schools give sex -ed. I want the yeshivas to give molestation -ed classes. I want to demand it from them and offer it to them. One hour a week every class gets told and tought about what is and is not ok. They are taught to speak up when they are abused or molested and pummped with the fact that it is OK and THE RIGHT THING TO DO if they report abuse or molestation !!! I think that might just be a start to breaking the cycle.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
I would like to comment on what leah wrote above.
As a recovering addict I know my following statement will be controversial because in Narcotics Anonymous they talk about complete abstinence from substances and alcohol.
I think the spirit of Leah’s comment alludes to complete sobriety.I respectfully disagree. I think it is perfectly ok for someone to come to cholent and enjoy a beer or a drink.
But the key should be moderation.
There is nothing wrong with having a drink or 2 and having a good time.The problems arise when people go overboard and get drunk and violent.
Thankfully most cholenters keep to this.Only once in a while does someone go overboard.
and concerning legal medication…
remember it is only legal if you follow the doctors prescription and take your meds at the proper intervals.Taking 30 percosets with a whiskey chaser will send you to the hospital or morgue.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I applaud the comments above by “winner”
Anyone who was abused could justifiably be angry and do nothing positive with their life.
But when someone faces challenges and overcomes them and succeeds that is truly heroic.
You sir are a WINNER !
March 11th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
HSD, I agree with you, in moderation is fine, but most of us dont seem to hold that capability and we get waked out of our minds any jump around from one addiction to the next.
Before my last trip to rehab they said I had to wait a week to get in and then they (and many other professionals) told me I had to “drink to sustaine. I should have 2 or 3 beers a day so I dont go through delirium tremmors. My reply was are you outa your fucking mind ? If I could have just two or three I wouldnt need rehab ! one and Im done ! IM HOOKED FOR THE DAY !
As for meds, IM note talking about percocets and vicodins that we chase with jack daniels. Im talking about psyhciatric evaluations and mental health meds and not chased with Jonny walker.
March 12th, 2009 at 1:18 am
Leah: you are fucking awesome, with or without your head straight
March 12th, 2009 at 3:06 am
Thank you. But with my head straight I am way more awsome and stand on giants shoulders and can move mountains. Im going to approach the yeshivas about molestation -ed in the next week or so, and I dont take no as an answer very well.
March 12th, 2009 at 8:45 am
GO LEAH! i’m not mekaneh those who try to turn you down.
i’d also like to bid bystander good-bye. may the rock you’ve hid back under provide you the shelter from reality you so desperately need.
March 12th, 2009 at 9:03 am
leah,
your honesty is awesome and it inspired me to call my son’s school
they pretty much told me to BE reasonable and assured me that the person in charge of that will get back to me..lol
good luck! don’t let those fuckers stand in your way
you’ve proven how strong you are inside and out
March 12th, 2009 at 9:44 am
I am really happy that every one is living out shua’s legecy…
he tried so hard to fight this disease but it took him at such a young age.
Shua was really powered up to start the program Ashrecha,so once again thank you.
i wish you much luck with your recovery,with your never ending battle.
never give up…..
March 12th, 2009 at 9:52 am
also,
if you would like to help out this program please email
HelpAshrecha@gmail.com…
or
inmemoryofshua.com
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March 12th, 2009 at 10:52 am
BIG DADDY, I didnt hide under any rock. I did the resposible thing and went to a shrink and got put back on the meds to keep me stable instead of the way you saw me on purim.
As for the Yeshivas, Im going to send them all a letter with an email addy and phone # they can respond to, if they choose not to I’ll throw one of my raging fits about it and let the whole world know. No is not the answer I’m going for or accepting.
March 12th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Scratch that first sentance . I didnt realize there was a commenter named “bystander”
March 14th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Try to understand ,these molesters are criminals & they need to have some big gay dude slip his package up their butthole several times to teach them a lesson.On the other hand it has nothing to do with someone being frum ,the one who commints this crime is NOT FRUM PERIOD.you cannot daven & then destroy someones life .However You cannot blame an entire frum community as well because their are plenty of frum decent people out there.
March 15th, 2009 at 1:53 am
“frum decent people” yadayadayada, nobody is making blanket statements here, but the authorities these people subscribe to - and the way they shape cultural phenomena.. etc… is a communal indictment…
sometimes inaction is a crime, especially when your support legitimizes the power of those who run this particular hierarchy; those actively or passively sweeping…
March 15th, 2009 at 8:03 am
If some sick fuck ever did anything sexual to my child I would have him put in a wheel chair the day before his sentancing.
March 17th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
ON SHUA’S COMPUTER…HE WROTE IT NOT TOO LONG AGO….
Hey you, we haven’t spoken in a while.. In fact its been about 6 months since we broke up.
Yes i do, id remember our last time at my place…
you promised to take me to heaven, Id hardly call that a lie you did your job babe,
you did.
To say idon’t miss you isn’t a fair statement.
I miss your embrace, i miss the warmth of your body combined with mine…
I miss the way you would hold me and make me feel like all of my problems didn’t exist..
you used to lay me to sleep. You were with me all day . It was almost a life of bliss those were the good times….
But Then there were the times when you got mad at me you were so unforgiving if i wanted a night alone you, you’d come back to me you wouldn’t let me sleep,
You would shake me you would scream in my ears,
You would make me freezing cold.
You would make me sick and lonely without you.
I began to realize this wasn’t just a lust anymore, it turned into something deeper i needed you it started to scare me how much you meant to me.
you were my everything my life nothing else mattered only you.
I spoke to my boys to some people i trusted they told me this wasn’t the way a relationship when that it sounded like i was stuck….deep down it rang true but you were stronger you pulled be back he held me close ohh that feeling of peace you brought me the way you convinced me everything was just going to be ok that i should just chill and enjoy our time together…
I did that, see then the problem was all those promises you made me were lies nothing changed in the morning all of my problems were still there plus i didn’t have you.. So i missed you but started to hate you it was going downhill i was lost i was confused i couldn’t live with you anymore but to be without you wasn’t either possible….
Now you know im no cheater but this one day you weren’t with me i was alone broken, miserable.
I heard some people talking about this girl, They told me we could be perfect together I shuffled over to were to she was sitting and took a glance at her.
To say she intimidated me is an understatement i mean this girl radiated power freedom and just love.
I thought about approaching her but i was scared i mean look at her she sat there dressed modestly but yet so tempting….i tried to approached her just to say hi, she wouldn’t look my way.
I just wasn’t on her level but i got this feeling deep down that we were meant to be together.. i approached her again trying to charm her as soon as she would start to catch interest or if the spark started to grow
You would show up looking seductive you would pull me close whisper in my ear she isn’t worth the chase come,come home with me it was tempting it was what my body wanted, My body, But not my heart.
I would tell you go wait at your place ill be there soon. deep down i may have believed it.
I knew this girl the new one was what i really wanted i had my mind made up.
i was tired of my ‘relationship’ with you it wasn’t even codependent you set rules and i had to listen.
I told you to move out i took your pictures off my wall i threw everything that reminded me of you out.
I wanted my new girl in.
As soon as you left you stared to haunt me you didn’t let me sleep you beat me down physically and emotionally, you weren’t letting go,
when i got to fall asleep you were in my dreams, you were telling me think of the good times they would flash before me.
Id wake sweating but i wasn’t going to give up. I was sick i was beaten but i was ready to heal.
I moved in with my new girl who helped me grow she let me be she showed me my choices,
she didn’t make them for me i began to grow i began to see what i really am.
she showed me my powers that you kept me from seeing.
I feel like you built up a dam holding back all of what i could be. and guess what? looking back six months later your nothing to me you a sick woman your one track minded with one goal to seduce to touter and then to kill.
I dont want you. I dont need you. I never did, you had me fooled for a while but now im a free man!
im growing and i cant be stopped and definitely not by you! and i see you smirking saying ‘ha’ he is not the first one to think he can stay away from me. well guess what you can smirk until your pretty little face falls off because im going and you will never get to touch me again yeah your pretty yeah your seductive, but your shallow your poison and you only want me dead so keep on waiting maybe even hold your breath….
I love my new girl she is everything you resent.
She represents chance, she represents freedom, and she represents true happiness.
Sobriety i love you. And no i wont ever leave you.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:42 am
I’m very impressed. This letter should be published and posted everywhere for all the kids that are lost and confused. God should bless all of you and be strong.
March 18th, 2009 at 10:11 am
well now, it would need to have an asterisk, wouldn’t it?
March 19th, 2009 at 2:43 am
shitalph
I won’t disclose who I am. You sat at my shabbos table, so i am sure you can..
Remember those innocent holy souls? One of them has been desecrated in those private ….
I will prosecute to the full extent.. No. my determination will not be bent,
regardless of der ” dus iz a moifis” insisting on protecting one of his own flock…
I will let his PRISON BUDDY’s decide where they want to store their COCK>>>>
Can you IMAGINE what my wife and I are going through???? HELL!!! HELL!! un nuch a mull HELL!!!!
March 19th, 2009 at 6:46 am
oy vay, siz bitter, siz bitter, siz tsi bitter. it’s a shrek. you bring an innocent into the world you try to do everything right and where they should’ve been safe… but your family is strong and full of love… let’s hope.
the only thing that’ll stop this is the media. we need to shine a bright light into these dark corners. forget about chilul hashem, forget about the community.
by a soyte m’mekt oys got’s numen far sholem bayis.
J.B. used to say if you had to knock down the kotel to save a person’s life you’re m’khuyav to do it.
pikuach nefesh is doykhe everything.
March 19th, 2009 at 8:36 am
As someone who lost a loved one, I feel for the family very much. I don’t think you should be doing this but rather take upon yourself something to help the neshama achieve greater heights which he can’t accomplish himself anymore. Fighting and cursing each other is only causing harm which no one wants on their shoulders. just please for him and the family show a little respect. Learn a lesson! Change Yourself!
March 19th, 2009 at 8:42 am
harm which no one wants on their shoulders?? WTF??? you’re babbling incoherently, don’t pretend you know anything about neshamas
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 am
I am appalled at the terrible way that many on this thread have expressed themselves. Is this how your parents taught you to speak? Hashem gave you a mouth (and hands for the keyboard) to say and write good things. These are truly disgusting words.
Thankfully, I am not from Lakewood. I hope you don’t represent what this community has to offer.
To the boy, I hope he finds nechama in the Better World.
To the family I wish you somehow to find nechama in this world. It would be better for you not to read the dribble that’s written here.
Peace.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 am
it’s DRIVEL.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:51 am
another tzufloygene paskenyak who knows all about other worlds
March 24th, 2009 at 1:54 am
for all the talk “about” shua & molestation, i still cannot figure out what exactly happened: was he molested in play groups as a little child & therefore mentions the playgroup that had 5 molestation cases? or was he molested later in yeshivah? or was he molested all together? & was it by a teacher? & in what yeshivah etc.? & do they know who the molester is? & is he still roaming the streets (of lakewood)? & what are they doing about all this?
i understand that some details may be too sensitive to elaborate upon, but at least someone, shitalphin or whoever else who knows, please explain the connection of shua to molestation. thanks.
March 24th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
http://babyboiiluvu.blogspot.com/2007/12/read-this-please.html
March 25th, 2009 at 10:07 am
ziy,
don’t know, don’t care.
March 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
so who said anything happened to him molestation-wise??? maybe he’s projecting, or referring to the molestation of others?? in which case, assuming it was a suicide, it was not directly related to him being molested. just wondering while being sensitive.
so yes, SA, you should care & try to find out, especially if true & the molester is still roaming the streets.
& if you don’t care, farvos nemstu dos azoy tzum hartzn??
March 25th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
none of the snags would tell us if they were incensed at the mention of drugs or abuse, but from the context it seems that the mention of drugs bothered them more
March 25th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
if i’m told who molested him i’d post it so the hundreds/thousands of peripheral jews who read this site would know who he is. more than that i never do.
it’s clear from his and others’ writings that he believed he was molested and that’s good enough for me.
April 6th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Im very sorry to hear th loss of a Jewish soul
but why are people being so harsh and mean
and why are people cursing arent we a holy nation?
April 7th, 2009 at 8:46 am
ah, well asked, grasshopper, but as the talmud says there are no apostrophes for lions and that it is better to sit in a fondue than to sit on an armadillo. think about these eternal jewish truths and the answer will come to you.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:29 am
# 144 ZoroIslamoYid
yes,shua a”h was molested.
an ongoing thing as a child….he suffered so greatly from it,from then until the age of 20,when god took him back.
the pain and humility he went through is not something i would wish on even me enemies.
he tried to numb his pain,then he found help.
he learned to live life the sober way.
this was an accident,i was with him till the very end.
he was so torn by his mistake,and i am torn that the mistake turned out so bad.
we lost him.
but he was proud of the new life he was living and proud of the awareness he started spreading.
unfortunately it took the tragedy of his passing for ppl to actually take it seriously.
if you have any questions or contributions please contact us at helpashrecha@gmail.com
April 26th, 2009 at 7:14 am
You all are dumb asses. This brother killed hisself due to being moelsted by some dumb ass bastard guy who violated his body u gotta frrl bad for the brother.
April 26th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
asshole, you obviously did not read all the comments. shtick putz du.
April 26th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
i asked god why he assered shrimp and he said we got the whole thing wrong he was suggesting whole red snapper on a bed of couscous, his favorite but nothing beats a shrimp cocktail as an appetizer and that serving chopped liver with an ice cream scoop on a piece of lettuce nobody eats is nauseating.
April 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
one more word out of you and your fucking shrimp and your fucking red sox and you can forget about ever seeing the shrimp.
April 26th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Shrimp cock, tail sounds gay to me.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Its bin months since Shua past away n there isn’t a day in my life were I dnt think about him.whether its while I’m praying,b4 I make decissions,when an opportunity comes up 2 do a mitzva 4 sum1 these r all things that came in2 affect after my frent Shua past away.To those that wrote the most sickening disgusting heartless sellfish spew if u rly r jewish n u rly give a dam about judiasm n wut it represents den go get urself checked out cuz judiasm iz beleiving in hashem we are his chosen nation n all of us have our battles throughout our lives no 2 ppl in this world are the same.you think ur a gud jew?writing sh£t about a boy hu past away n u dnt evn knw hu da FU£K he is?r u happy with ur life?r u religous?married?bringing up a normal jewish family?I read the most horrible comments 2day on this blog n I want 2 just say there is a g-d that saw all that u wrote!did u 4get hu ur trying 2 defend b4 u started writing horrible things 2 blumie or his sister?do u believe that g-d sees evrything u say?u ppl r wut the term CHILLUL HASHEM means wen u go around saying this crap in HASHEMS name???that iz sumthing the most fu£t up lkwd kid wearing jeans with his girlfrend doing drugs in j2 pizza wudnt say!Shua ddnt blame his addiction on the fact that he wuz mollested!he tuk a rong turn bec of his test n he wuz on his way back up bringing as many along with him!do u knw wut mollestation iz?do u realize that ppl r never able 2 liv with themselves ppl go 2 therapy 4 the rest of ther lives 4 this!u think u can just say the 1st sh£t that comes 2 ur head in HASHEMS name??!!that makes no sence alltogether!!I want 2 c wut ppl r gna say @ ur funeral!I wana c how ur kids turn out!I wana c how u liv ur daily life beleiving that this iz the jewish belief bec its da opposite kol yisroel arayvim zeh luzeh wuznt sum bullsh£t sum rabi sed!the bais hamikdash wuznt destroyed bec boys wer wearing jeans n doing drugs rather it wuz from ppl like u.I hope I explaind it enough and pleez do me a favor EVERYBODY think b4 u speak think b4 u write sumthing about sum1 especialy aftr he/she passes away!dnt think about urself n wut da person b4 u sed or wrote!think about G-D!if u have anything else 2 say pleez feel free 2 go 2 the facebook group wich I created that so many frends wrote about how selfless n caring Shua wuz.I hope by the time u die ppl will be able 2 say the same about urself!
June 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
What the fuck is your issue mike? They lost their son, brother friend. you seriously got issus. if u cant understand pain dont comment such bullshit. Blumie is not makin things up. she lost the closest person in her life how dare you fucking say that. u;ll burn in hell for ur actions!!!!!!
June 22nd, 2009 at 5:44 pm
This is for # 11 quote: Lakewood used to be free of all eateries that had sit-downs and had take out ONLY to avoid having hang-outs (I know, it’s hard for New Yorkers to imagine such ideals). Then along came one food establishment who decided to break the rule and “paved the way” for every place to follow suit. That helped contribute to the spiritual decline of what used to be a town of spirituality (the cheaper home prices that brought many Boro Parkers and Flatbush people in didn’t help either). That place will bear responsibility for that, no matter how much the owner denies it being his fault.
I don’t know how much you know about lakewood but I have been in Lakewood a long time (24 years) and before the sit down eateries were opened there was no where Jewish for kids to hang out. So what happened to these kids? Most of them are not religious at all instead of leaving a religious but more modern life. If this was my kid, I would rather religious but modern….
July 1st, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Shua was a special person who I was lucky to know, he was a power house of a person he couldn’t stand nonsense from anybody especially not him self. He was so proud of himself that he was finding a way to live a clean life and actually make a differnce to this world, This was a terrible mistake which he tried to solve himself because he was so embarassed of his fall and a combination of bad decisions by him and his friends caused us to lose him, I think G-d wanted him back. We should all take from him that we can all contribute to make this world a better place, take advantage of our potentials and just learn to accept each other. We love you Shua and I try to do something for you every day, hope you feel it